6 ms·

Palantir helped the government detect people breaking the law?? For shame!

by beervirus 6y ago

uoaei 6y ago
Is the law just?
- beervirus 6y ago
  It is acceptable for a country to have borders and place conditions on who is allowed to cross them.
  - uoaei 6y ago
    Not when those conditions, and their enforcement, challenge basic human rights. This is ethics 101.
    - DuskStar 6y ago
      Can you formulate a way to enforce conditions on international migration and travel that doesn't challenge what you view as "basic human rights"?
      - uoaei 6y ago
        Is it appropriate to give human rights abuses a pass until someone can appease your kneejerk reaction for rationalization?
        DuskStar 6y ago
        Generally people will accept "human rights" abuses for ends that they feel strongly enough about if there aren't alternatives. Maintaining the existence of borders as a practical construct is one of those things. So, if you want to end those "human rights" abuses, you'll need to provide alternatives.
    - Bancakes 6y ago
      Human rights are intangible and the few organisations that tout them concentrate on smaller countries.
  - Temasik 6y ago
    I don't understand the downvote here. HN'ers are a community detached from the atom world hahah
- TimWillebrands 6y ago
  Is having a border just?
- johncena33 6y ago
  Then change the law and make it fair for eveyone. The current system of protecting people entering into USA favors a particular demographic, which by itself is unfair and unjust. I am also looking for a better life and want to immigrate to USA. But there's no easy way to do it without breaking the law. Creating a system that incentivizes people to break the law and deters law-abiding people to immigrate is not the answer.
  - poulsbohemian 6y ago
    >want to immigrate to USA Why? I don't know where you are coming from, but the world is a big place and there are lots of nice places to go. Granted, there are visa / immigration issues in plenty of countries apart from the US as well, but frankly for decades now the US has been on the decline in every measure of livability: health care, education, incomes, leisure time, commute time, etc, etc. About the only thing the US nominally leads in is a vague notion that you can make more money here than in other countries, but even that is subjective relative to the cost of living and quality of life.
geofft 6y ago
"Grandma wasn't deported to Auschwitz by evil Nazis. She was arrested by the local police enforcing the laws." https://twitter.com/r0ml/status/797296318897147906 https://twitter.com/r0ml/status/797296318897147906
- beervirus 6y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
  - geofft 6y ago
    Thanks for linking that. From the article: > Godwin's law itself can be abused as a distraction, diversion or even as censorship, fallaciously miscasting an opponent's argument as hyperbole when the comparisons made by the argument are actually appropriate. Mike Godwin himself has also criticized the overapplication of Godwin's law, claiming it does not articulate a fallacy; it is instead framed as a memetic tool to reduce the incidence of inappropriate, hyperbolic comparisons. [...] > In December 2015, Godwin commented on the Nazi and fascist comparisons being made by several articles about Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump, saying: "If you're thoughtful about it and show some real awareness of history, go ahead and refer to Hitler when you talk about Trump, or any other politician." [...] > In June, 2018, Godwin wrote an opinion piece in the Los Angeles Times which denied the need to update or amend the rule, and which rejects the idea that whoever invokes Godwin's Law has lost their argument, and which argues that appropriate application of the rule "should function less as a conversation ender and more as a conversation starter". [...] > In June 2019, after Chris Hayes invoked Godwin's Law in a discussion of whether it was appropriate to call the United States's refugee detention centers "concentration camps", Godwin explicitly stated his belief that the term "concentration camps" was appropriate.
- gruez 6y ago
  Are you seriously equating deporting someone to the holocaust?
  - uoaei 6y ago

Palantir helped the government detect people breaking the law?? For shame!

uoaei 6y ago

Is the law just?

beervirus 6y ago
It is acceptable for a country to have borders and place conditions on who is allowed to cross them.
- uoaei 6y ago
  Not when those conditions, and their enforcement, challenge basic human rights. This is ethics 101.
  - DuskStar 6y ago
    Can you formulate a way to enforce conditions on international migration and travel that doesn't challenge what you view as "basic human rights"?
    - uoaei 6y ago
      Is it appropriate to give human rights abuses a pass until someone can appease your kneejerk reaction for rationalization?
      - DuskStar 6y ago
        Generally people will accept "human rights" abuses for ends that they feel strongly enough about if there aren't alternatives. Maintaining the existence of borders as a practical construct is one of those things. So, if you want to end those "human rights" abuses, you'll need to provide alternatives.
  - Bancakes 6y ago
    Human rights are intangible and the few organisations that tout them concentrate on smaller countries.
- Temasik 6y ago
  I don't understand the downvote here. HN'ers are a community detached from the atom world hahah
TimWillebrands 6y ago
Is having a border just?
johncena33 6y ago
Then change the law and make it fair for eveyone. The current system of protecting people entering into USA favors a particular demographic, which by itself is unfair and unjust. I am also looking for a better life and want to immigrate to USA. But there's no easy way to do it without breaking the law. Creating a system that incentivizes people to break the law and deters law-abiding people to immigrate is not the answer.
- poulsbohemian 6y ago
  >want to immigrate to USA Why? I don't know where you are coming from, but the world is a big place and there are lots of nice places to go. Granted, there are visa / immigration issues in plenty of countries apart from the US as well, but frankly for decades now the US has been on the decline in every measure of livability: health care, education, incomes, leisure time, commute time, etc, etc. About the only thing the US nominally leads in is a vague notion that you can make more money here than in other countries, but even that is subjective relative to the cost of living and quality of life.

geofft 6y ago

"Grandma wasn't deported to Auschwitz by evil Nazis. She was arrested by the local police enforcing the laws." https://twitter.com/r0ml/status/797296318897147906 https://twitter.com/r0ml/status/797296318897147906

beervirus 6y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
- geofft 6y ago
  Thanks for linking that. From the article: > Godwin's law itself can be abused as a distraction, diversion or even as censorship, fallaciously miscasting an opponent's argument as hyperbole when the comparisons made by the argument are actually appropriate. Mike Godwin himself has also criticized the overapplication of Godwin's law, claiming it does not articulate a fallacy; it is instead framed as a memetic tool to reduce the incidence of inappropriate, hyperbolic comparisons. [...] > In December 2015, Godwin commented on the Nazi and fascist comparisons being made by several articles about Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump, saying: "If you're thoughtful about it and show some real awareness of history, go ahead and refer to Hitler when you talk about Trump, or any other politician." [...] > In June, 2018, Godwin wrote an opinion piece in the Los Angeles Times which denied the need to update or amend the rule, and which rejects the idea that whoever invokes Godwin's Law has lost their argument, and which argues that appropriate application of the rule "should function less as a conversation ender and more as a conversation starter". [...] > In June 2019, after Chris Hayes invoked Godwin's Law in a discussion of whether it was appropriate to call the United States's refugee detention centers "concentration camps", Godwin explicitly stated his belief that the term "concentration camps" was appropriate.
gruez 6y ago
Are you seriously equating deporting someone to the holocaust?
- uoaei 6y ago