4 ms·

Will the receiver be something you can plug in as a USB device for a laptop and carry with you? Or is it bulkier than that? Edit: sounds like it's half a meter

by foota 6y ago

Will the receiver be something you can plug in as a USB device for a laptop and carry with you? Or is it bulkier than that? Edit: sounds like it's half a meter, so no :-) "If you're accepted for the beta, you can expect to get a user terminal with a flat disc antenna, which measures 0.48 meters in diameter. Musk describes these as looking like a "little UFO on a stick." Your terminal's antennas will self-direct itself for the best satellite signals." [https://www.zdnet.com/article/spacex-starlink-internet-prepares-for-beta-users/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/spacex-starlink-internet-prepa...]

the8472 6y ago
> sounds like it's half a meter, so no :-) Sounds like it would be man-portable. So yes, if it's important enough to your mission. Push a stick into the ground, mount the disk on top and connect to your rugged hardware.
- walrus01 6y ago
  such things already exist for satellite news gathering and military/tactical purposes, with geostationary satellite capacity. But they're both very costly to purchase and very costly to operate, due to the rudimentary modulations necessary for any useful Mbps on such a small terminal. The idea of a portable starlink terminal that might cost under $5000 is revolutionary. much smaller foldable things already exist that can talk to the Inmarsat I-4/I-5 networks, but again, very costly in dolllars per megabyte of data transferred. https://www.tampamicrowave.com/satellite-terminals/ https://www.tampamicrowave.com/satellite-terminals/ https://www.tampamicrowave.com/satellite-terminals/ https://www.tampamicrowave.com/satellite-terminals/
  - iso1210 6y ago
    A 600kbit BGAN is a little larger than a laptop, and is self contained (including a battery), with built in wifi and/or an ethernet cable. Set up in a minute or two if you know where to point it (the program on the laptop will help with that, then the beeps) But yes, you're talking $3 a megabyte on that. Starlink's actual usuable bandwidth and cost is still a question, but if it does turn out to be an order of magnitude cheaper and faster than a bgan it will be revolutionary. I'm glad I don't own shares in companies like Inmarsat. (And that's without the massive improvement in latency - a bgan in background mode is typically a 1000-1200ms RTT. In the per-minute guarenteed mode it's 600ms)
    - walrus01 6y ago
      Until they figure out satellite-to-satellite, starlink will be still limited by having an earth station visible underneath the satellite simultaneously in the same general region as the CPEs. It's all "moving bent pipe" right now. Same architectural limitation as why the original Globalstar LEO network for handheld satellite phones was never able to offer truly "global" coverage, unlike Iridium. It will be quite some time before Starlink is usable in the middle of the Pacific ocean. I don't think it will kill Inmarsat immediately for maritime and aviation applications. But I am also glad I don't own an of their stock (I also own no stock in any geostationary satellite owner/operator).
      - toomuchtodo 6y ago
        Latest rev StarLink sats have successfully performed satellite to satellite laser comms. Disclosure: I intend to own StarLink stock when available. https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-starlink-space-lasers-first-orbital-test/ https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-starlink-space-lasers-first...
      - iso1210 6y ago
        I think Musk will deliver. May take another 5 years. Sure we'll still be buying older kit like vsats for a year or two after that too, but it isn't going to be growing. You're right about GEO market -- it's more than just IP. We have an old UKI doing probably it's last event this weekend (delayed due to covid). The replacement doesn't have a dish. Started decommissioning a truck with a vsat today -- replacement is 4g/5g only. The traditional non-IP market is shrinking even without starlink. The biggest risk to starlink I suspect would be Musk dying. He seems to have the ability to defy naysayers and change industries.
        gamblor956 6y ago
        There is a 0% chance of Musk delivering. OTOH, there's a good chance that the many engineers and scientists at SpaceX, working under Gwynne Shotwell, will deliver something viable. Stop giving Musk credit for the things he didn't do. His death won't affect the viability of Starlink, and if anything, it would likely improve the final product. SpaceX's successes and failures are generally inversely proportional to the attention Musks puts into running the company; i.e., SpaceX's success is inversely proportional to his micromanaging and meddling.
- foota 6y ago
  I was thinking more, being able to plug it into my laptop at a coffee shop :-)
ju-st 6y ago
It needs 56V via PoE as power supply. So you need at least a 56V PoE injector and a powerbank that can supply this voltage. This is my free startup/product idea today. :) https://fcc.report/FCC-ID/2AWHPR201/4805892 https://fcc.report/FCC-ID/2AWHPR201/4805892
- walrus01 6y ago
  DC-to-DC 1000BaseT 802.3at / 802.3bt PoE injectors already exist for loads in the 25W to 70W range, typically used for WISP access point radios on towers. Not a consumer friendly portable thing, however https://tyconsystems.com/products/tycon-power/poe-injectors/dc/item/199-tp-dcdc-xxxx-hp https://tyconsystems.com/products/tycon-power/poe-injectors/...
  - m463 6y ago
    > Not a consumer friendly portable thing, however but otoh it does talk to a spaceship :)
burtonator 6y ago
> sounds like it's half a meter, so no For Americans who don't use the metric system that's 22 feet!
- jlgaddis 6y ago
  This American that doesn't use the metric system thinks you're off by more than an order of magnitude. If I'm remembering my elementary school math correctly, "half a meter" (0.5m) is ~1.6 feet according to the calculator in my head.
yalok 6y ago
they will prob'ly embed this antenna in Teslas and each Tesla will be a hot-spot. I'd worry about RF radiation to humans at such proximity, however.
- m463 6y ago
  I believe the wifi hotspot radiation would be dwarfed by the sun. sun radiation is 1kw/m^2 wifi is like 20mw so: 1000 watts vs .020 watts or sun = 1,000,000 milliwatts, wifi hotspot is 20 milliwatts if you're talking about the signal from the satellite, that is probably a lot smaller. For comparison a gps satellite has a 50 watt transmitter and is 12000 miles away.
m463 6y ago
> Musk describes these as looking like a "little UFO on a stick." Other CEOs do not talk like this. :)

by foota 6y ago

the8472 6y ago

> sounds like it's half a meter, so no :-) Sounds like it would be man-portable. So yes, if it's important enough to your mission. Push a stick into the ground, mount the disk on top and connect to your rugged hardware.

walrus01 6y ago
such things already exist for satellite news gathering and military/tactical purposes, with geostationary satellite capacity. But they're both very costly to purchase and very costly to operate, due to the rudimentary modulations necessary for any useful Mbps on such a small terminal. The idea of a portable starlink terminal that might cost under $5000 is revolutionary. much smaller foldable things already exist that can talk to the Inmarsat I-4/I-5 networks, but again, very costly in dolllars per megabyte of data transferred. https://www.tampamicrowave.com/satellite-terminals/ https://www.tampamicrowave.com/satellite-terminals/ https://www.tampamicrowave.com/satellite-terminals/ https://www.tampamicrowave.com/satellite-terminals/
- iso1210 6y ago
  A 600kbit BGAN is a little larger than a laptop, and is self contained (including a battery), with built in wifi and/or an ethernet cable. Set up in a minute or two if you know where to point it (the program on the laptop will help with that, then the beeps) But yes, you're talking $3 a megabyte on that. Starlink's actual usuable bandwidth and cost is still a question, but if it does turn out to be an order of magnitude cheaper and faster than a bgan it will be revolutionary. I'm glad I don't own shares in companies like Inmarsat. (And that's without the massive improvement in latency - a bgan in background mode is typically a 1000-1200ms RTT. In the per-minute guarenteed mode it's 600ms)
  - walrus01 6y ago
    Until they figure out satellite-to-satellite, starlink will be still limited by having an earth station visible underneath the satellite simultaneously in the same general region as the CPEs. It's all "moving bent pipe" right now. Same architectural limitation as why the original Globalstar LEO network for handheld satellite phones was never able to offer truly "global" coverage, unlike Iridium. It will be quite some time before Starlink is usable in the middle of the Pacific ocean. I don't think it will kill Inmarsat immediately for maritime and aviation applications. But I am also glad I don't own an of their stock (I also own no stock in any geostationary satellite owner/operator).
    - toomuchtodo 6y ago
      Latest rev StarLink sats have successfully performed satellite to satellite laser comms. Disclosure: I intend to own StarLink stock when available. https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-starlink-space-lasers-first-orbital-test/ https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-starlink-space-lasers-first...
    - iso1210 6y ago
      I think Musk will deliver. May take another 5 years. Sure we'll still be buying older kit like vsats for a year or two after that too, but it isn't going to be growing. You're right about GEO market -- it's more than just IP. We have an old UKI doing probably it's last event this weekend (delayed due to covid). The replacement doesn't have a dish. Started decommissioning a truck with a vsat today -- replacement is 4g/5g only. The traditional non-IP market is shrinking even without starlink. The biggest risk to starlink I suspect would be Musk dying. He seems to have the ability to defy naysayers and change industries.
      - gamblor956 6y ago
        There is a 0% chance of Musk delivering. OTOH, there's a good chance that the many engineers and scientists at SpaceX, working under Gwynne Shotwell, will deliver something viable. Stop giving Musk credit for the things he didn't do. His death won't affect the viability of Starlink, and if anything, it would likely improve the final product. SpaceX's successes and failures are generally inversely proportional to the attention Musks puts into running the company; i.e., SpaceX's success is inversely proportional to his micromanaging and meddling.
foota 6y ago
I was thinking more, being able to plug it into my laptop at a coffee shop :-)

ju-st 6y ago

It needs 56V via PoE as power supply. So you need at least a 56V PoE injector and a powerbank that can supply this voltage. This is my free startup/product idea today. :) https://fcc.report/FCC-ID/2AWHPR201/4805892 https://fcc.report/FCC-ID/2AWHPR201/4805892

walrus01 6y ago
DC-to-DC 1000BaseT 802.3at / 802.3bt PoE injectors already exist for loads in the 25W to 70W range, typically used for WISP access point radios on towers. Not a consumer friendly portable thing, however https://tyconsystems.com/products/tycon-power/poe-injectors/dc/item/199-tp-dcdc-xxxx-hp https://tyconsystems.com/products/tycon-power/poe-injectors/...
- m463 6y ago
  > Not a consumer friendly portable thing, however but otoh it does talk to a spaceship :)

burtonator 6y ago

> sounds like it's half a meter, so no For Americans who don't use the metric system that's 22 feet!

jlgaddis 6y ago
This American that doesn't use the metric system thinks you're off by more than an order of magnitude. If I'm remembering my elementary school math correctly, "half a meter" (0.5m) is ~1.6 feet according to the calculator in my head.

yalok 6y ago

they will prob'ly embed this antenna in Teslas and each Tesla will be a hot-spot. I'd worry about RF radiation to humans at such proximity, however.

m463 6y ago
I believe the wifi hotspot radiation would be dwarfed by the sun. sun radiation is 1kw/m^2 wifi is like 20mw so: 1000 watts vs .020 watts or sun = 1,000,000 milliwatts, wifi hotspot is 20 milliwatts if you're talking about the signal from the satellite, that is probably a lot smaller. For comparison a gps satellite has a 50 watt transmitter and is 12000 miles away.

m463 6y ago

> Musk describes these as looking like a "little UFO on a stick." Other CEOs do not talk like this. :)