5 ms·

I assume that the city's researchers looked at take-home divided by time available to drive and the companies probably only counted the time the drivers were ac

I assume that the city's researchers looked at take-home divided by time available to drive and the companies probably only counted the time the drivers were actively engaged. It's why they only want to have to pay a wage when a driver is engaged: they can make them clock out in between rides.

wgerard 6y ago
Actually IIRC last time I looked it was more like city researchers usually subtract depreciation on the vehicle from the earnings, which can be quite substantial (IRS rates are roughly a quarter per mile). Uber doesn't subtract that, so the rate per hour varies wildly.
kenjackson 6y ago
They both said they did what you note. But they have different data sets. The companies included tips and not any delta associated with insurance. Oddly the companies would not share their data set with the city but did share it with Cornell. Just on that count alone I tend to look more favorable to the city’s numbers.
- Pfhreak 6y ago
  > The companies included tips and not any delta associated with insurance. Tips are not part of wages. You should make whatever wage you are going to make and then get tips on top of that.
  - PragmaticPulp 6y ago
    Morally you might be right, but that’s not the legal definition. Your tips are counted as part of your wages. In some cases companies can pay wages below minimum wage as long as the sum of wages and tips adds up to minimum wage.
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      > Your tips are counted as part of your wages No, they aren't. > In some cases companies can pay wages below minimum wage as long as the sum of wages and tips adds up to minimum wage Both federally and in many states wage and hour laws, there is a lower tipped minimum wage that can be paid so long as the sum of tips and actual wages is at least the the level that would be the minimum wage for a nontipped position, but the fact that there is still a minimum for the actual wage and that the wage is summed with tips to compare against a separate target makes very clear that “wages” and “tips” are separate buckets, the former does not include the latter. Now, there are other things (like income taxes) that operate on the sum not one of the individual buckets, but that's a different issue.
      - PragmaticPulp 6y ago
        If you want to debate semantics, that’s one thing, but arbitrarily excluding wages from someone’s earnings to make a point is still disingenuous. The US DOL has a very clear definition of what constitutes a tipped worker and the association compensation requirements: https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/wagestips https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/wagestips
        dragonwriter 6y ago
        > but arbitrarily excluding wages from someone’s earnings No one's excluding wages from earnings, or tips from earnings; what is excluded is tips from wages, just as is done when setting a separate tipped minimum wage (that only is a minimum for wages, not wages plus tips), like the federal $2.13 and many state wage and hour laws for tipped employees, or when setting a minimum wage and not counting tips against it (as is the case in a number of US states and territories, including Washington, California, and others.)

wgerard 6y ago

Actually IIRC last time I looked it was more like city researchers usually subtract depreciation on the vehicle from the earnings, which can be quite substantial (IRS rates are roughly a quarter per mile). Uber doesn't subtract that, so the rate per hour varies wildly.

kenjackson 6y ago

They both said they did what you note. But they have different data sets. The companies included tips and not any delta associated with insurance. Oddly the companies would not share their data set with the city but did share it with Cornell. Just on that count alone I tend to look more favorable to the city’s numbers.

Pfhreak 6y ago
> The companies included tips and not any delta associated with insurance. Tips are not part of wages. You should make whatever wage you are going to make and then get tips on top of that.
- PragmaticPulp 6y ago
  Morally you might be right, but that’s not the legal definition. Your tips are counted as part of your wages. In some cases companies can pay wages below minimum wage as long as the sum of wages and tips adds up to minimum wage.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > Your tips are counted as part of your wages No, they aren't. > In some cases companies can pay wages below minimum wage as long as the sum of wages and tips adds up to minimum wage Both federally and in many states wage and hour laws, there is a lower tipped minimum wage that can be paid so long as the sum of tips and actual wages is at least the the level that would be the minimum wage for a nontipped position, but the fact that there is still a minimum for the actual wage and that the wage is summed with tips to compare against a separate target makes very clear that “wages” and “tips” are separate buckets, the former does not include the latter. Now, there are other things (like income taxes) that operate on the sum not one of the individual buckets, but that's a different issue.
    - PragmaticPulp 6y ago
      If you want to debate semantics, that’s one thing, but arbitrarily excluding wages from someone’s earnings to make a point is still disingenuous. The US DOL has a very clear definition of what constitutes a tipped worker and the association compensation requirements: https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/wagestips https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/wagestips
      - dragonwriter 6y ago
        > but arbitrarily excluding wages from someone’s earnings No one's excluding wages from earnings, or tips from earnings; what is excluded is tips from wages, just as is done when setting a separate tipped minimum wage (that only is a minimum for wages, not wages plus tips), like the federal $2.13 and many state wage and hour laws for tipped employees, or when setting a minimum wage and not counting tips against it (as is the case in a number of US states and territories, including Washington, California, and others.)