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So this is where I also struggle with Cicero. He was overly political, very worried about his own image, flip-flopped sides as suited him and was easily persuad

So this is where I also struggle with Cicero. He was overly political, very worried about his own image, flip-flopped sides as suited him and was easily persuaded with gifts of status. But we remember him for his philosophies and writings (or his summaries of other’s philosophy for the more cynical), which did seem to have a impact on future generations. On one hand, all men fall short of their ideal. But do you really think character qualities such as Cicero’s erase the positive influence he might have had despite them over the longer term? I struggle with this and it’s a genuine question. On reading his biography I was put off on the man himself more or less, while at the same time his words seem to inspire.

082349872349872 6y ago
The point of ideals is that we're often willing to overlook[1] flaws in their messengers[2]. A man's retch should exceed his grasp, or what's a-heaving for? "The power which the strong have over the weak, the employer over the employed, the educated over the unlettered, the experienced over the confiding, even the clever over the silly -- the forbearing or inoffensive use of all this power or authority, or a total abstinence from it when the case admits it, will show the gentleman in a plain light." -- General Robert E. Lee "The nobles would still be in charge if they'd cared more about fruits than about roots." -- Emperor Napoleon Bonaparte [1] that is, for judging the ideal. Judging a messenger by the ideals they profess to aspire is a different matter. “Be true to what you said on paper.” – Martin Luther King, Jr., April 3, 1968. [2] compare https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23378137 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23378137
- giardini 6y ago
  082349872349872 says "A man's retch should exceed his grasp..." I saw what you did there.

082349872349872 6y ago

The point of ideals is that we're often willing to overlook[1] flaws in their messengers[2]. A man's retch should exceed his grasp, or what's a-heaving for? "The power which the strong have over the weak, the employer over the employed, the educated over the unlettered, the experienced over the confiding, even the clever over the silly -- the forbearing or inoffensive use of all this power or authority, or a total abstinence from it when the case admits it, will show the gentleman in a plain light." -- General Robert E. Lee "The nobles would still be in charge if they'd cared more about fruits than about roots." -- Emperor Napoleon Bonaparte [1] that is, for judging the ideal. Judging a messenger by the ideals they profess to aspire is a different matter. “Be true to what you said on paper.” – Martin Luther King, Jr., April 3, 1968. [2] compare https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23378137 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23378137

giardini 6y ago
082349872349872 says "A man's retch should exceed his grasp..." I saw what you did there.