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The author points to the recently good support for frameworks (specifically MVC), but hasn't there been a bit of a backlash against overly opinionated framework

The author points to the recently good support for frameworks (specifically MVC), but hasn't there been a bit of a backlash against overly opinionated frameworks and a move to more lightweight frameworks like Sinatra? Isn't PHP going to just be behind on this trend as well?

hieronymusN 16y ago
There are already very lightweight frameworks like Sinatra in PHP - such as Slim : https://github.com/codeguy/Slim https://github.com/codeguy/Slim
praxxis 16y ago
Not necessarily. Check out frameworks like Silex (https://github.com/fabpot/Silex https://github.com/fabpot/Silex) - it's very lightweight.
nuclear_eclipse 16y ago
CodeIgniter, which is what the author recommends and I have used extensively, is already a very lightweight framework, or at least compared to some of the very opinionated ones like Zend. CI goes out of its way to make sure you can use or ignore as much of the framework as you want, with the exception of its core controller and routes system. Components like templating, views, active record, form validation, etc, are completely optional, and it's trivial to replace or extend components without having to mess around with any of the core code. Just don't load that component, and use something else instead.
- te_chris 16y ago
  Wait, isn't Zend the opposite of a rails-style opinionated framework and basically just a collection of classes that you can assemble however you want for your project? I've only done a little bit with it, but that's always been the impression I've got from the literature I've read.
  - nuclear_eclipse 16y ago
    I think it's supposed to be, but every time I've looked at using Zend, I always get the impression that you can't just give or take individual pieces of Zend like you can with CI. Certain bits of the framework are interdependent on other bits, and before you know it you're pulling in about 50 of its core components just to make a basic MVC application. But then again, I haven't looked at Zend in the last year or so; perhaps its gotten better in the mean time.
trustfundbaby 16y ago
hasn't there been a bit of a backlash against overly opinionated frameworks and a move to more lightweight frameworks like Sinatra -------------------------- Not to my knowledge ... there has been a rise in said lightweight frameworks, but thats just because heavy Frameworks like rails don't work for every scenario

hieronymusN 16y ago

There are already very lightweight frameworks like Sinatra in PHP - such as Slim : https://github.com/codeguy/Slim https://github.com/codeguy/Slim

praxxis 16y ago

Not necessarily. Check out frameworks like Silex (https://github.com/fabpot/Silex https://github.com/fabpot/Silex) - it's very lightweight.

nuclear_eclipse 16y ago

CodeIgniter, which is what the author recommends and I have used extensively, is already a very lightweight framework, or at least compared to some of the very opinionated ones like Zend. CI goes out of its way to make sure you can use or ignore as much of the framework as you want, with the exception of its core controller and routes system. Components like templating, views, active record, form validation, etc, are completely optional, and it's trivial to replace or extend components without having to mess around with any of the core code. Just don't load that component, and use something else instead.

te_chris 16y ago
Wait, isn't Zend the opposite of a rails-style opinionated framework and basically just a collection of classes that you can assemble however you want for your project? I've only done a little bit with it, but that's always been the impression I've got from the literature I've read.
- nuclear_eclipse 16y ago
  I think it's supposed to be, but every time I've looked at using Zend, I always get the impression that you can't just give or take individual pieces of Zend like you can with CI. Certain bits of the framework are interdependent on other bits, and before you know it you're pulling in about 50 of its core components just to make a basic MVC application. But then again, I haven't looked at Zend in the last year or so; perhaps its gotten better in the mean time.

trustfundbaby 16y ago

hasn't there been a bit of a backlash against overly opinionated frameworks and a move to more lightweight frameworks like Sinatra -------------------------- Not to my knowledge ... there has been a rise in said lightweight frameworks, but thats just because heavy Frameworks like rails don't work for every scenario