4 ms·

Your high level point about universal tolerance stands - but you might like to challenge some of your object level assumptions about world religions and LGBT. I

Your high level point about universal tolerance stands - but you might like to challenge some of your object level assumptions about world religions and LGBT. Iranian theocratic leadership for example officially does not think that being trans is against sharia and the nation carries out more gender reassignment surgeries than any country except Thailand (not that their treatment of trans people is perfect by any means). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_rights_in_Iran https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_rights_in_Iran

jokethrowaway 6y ago
A past employer decided to publish a rainbow themed design for LGBTQ pride and rolled back the UAE version of the website following feedback from clients there.
- Gormisdomai 6y ago
  I think "impossible to reconcile with the codified teachings of religion X" and "would receive negative feedback / appear intolerant to people currently practicing religion X" are different claims. Though I totally agree the latter is a good argument for why "universal tolerance" is not a straightforward concept. Specifically: I'm disputing the theological claim "Being a practicing L, G, B, or T or pro any of them is against sharia, the Catechism, and against the rules of many major Protestant sects like Mormons." That's not really a settled question.
fernandotakai 6y ago
i hope you realize that homosexuals in iran are sometimes forced to transition just so they don't get killed. >Iran is one of a handful of countries where homosexual acts are punishable by death. Clerics do, however accept the idea that a person may be trapped in a body of the wrong sex. So homosexuals can be pushed into having gender reassignment surgery - and to avoid it many flee the country. https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-29832690 https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-29832690
- Gormisdomai 6y ago
  Yeah Iran remains massively homophobic and hostile to LGBT rights - the variety of approaches taken shows that there is scope for the laws to be interpreted as compatible. I'd argue that claiming that LGBT rights are irreconcilable with Islamic law makes things worse overall.
mountainb 6y ago
Sodomy is illegal in Iran. This has statute citations, but I don't know where Iranian laws are posted. https://pridelegal.com/iran-lgbt-laws/ https://pridelegal.com/iran-lgbt-laws/ Point being there is no such thing as a universally 'tolerant' moral system -- no matter what stance you profess to take on a given issue of this type, it will be discriminatory against very large groups of people (billions of them).
- Closi 6y ago
  It's about taking a sensible approach according to the culture your company operates in. An apolitical company can still clearly say "slavery is bad" even though it does happen in some places in the world.
mdpye 6y ago
From the article you link: > They sanction funds for sex reassignment surgery in order to fit all of their citizens > into the category of either male or female without any grey area for those who are homosexual > or transgender. So support the T specifically for the purposes of denying the L, G and B. Grandparent looks at least 3/4 correct to me...
awerawerawrjhui 6y ago
Iran subsidises gender reassignment surgeries because homosexuality in Iran is a capital crime. Transitioning is that country's form of conversion therapy; hardly progressive.

jokethrowaway 6y ago

A past employer decided to publish a rainbow themed design for LGBTQ pride and rolled back the UAE version of the website following feedback from clients there.

Gormisdomai 6y ago
I think "impossible to reconcile with the codified teachings of religion X" and "would receive negative feedback / appear intolerant to people currently practicing religion X" are different claims. Though I totally agree the latter is a good argument for why "universal tolerance" is not a straightforward concept. Specifically: I'm disputing the theological claim "Being a practicing L, G, B, or T or pro any of them is against sharia, the Catechism, and against the rules of many major Protestant sects like Mormons." That's not really a settled question.

fernandotakai 6y ago

i hope you realize that homosexuals in iran are sometimes forced to transition just so they don't get killed. >Iran is one of a handful of countries where homosexual acts are punishable by death. Clerics do, however accept the idea that a person may be trapped in a body of the wrong sex. So homosexuals can be pushed into having gender reassignment surgery - and to avoid it many flee the country. https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-29832690 https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-29832690

Gormisdomai 6y ago
Yeah Iran remains massively homophobic and hostile to LGBT rights - the variety of approaches taken shows that there is scope for the laws to be interpreted as compatible. I'd argue that claiming that LGBT rights are irreconcilable with Islamic law makes things worse overall.

mountainb 6y ago

Sodomy is illegal in Iran. This has statute citations, but I don't know where Iranian laws are posted. https://pridelegal.com/iran-lgbt-laws/ https://pridelegal.com/iran-lgbt-laws/ Point being there is no such thing as a universally 'tolerant' moral system -- no matter what stance you profess to take on a given issue of this type, it will be discriminatory against very large groups of people (billions of them).

Closi 6y ago
It's about taking a sensible approach according to the culture your company operates in. An apolitical company can still clearly say "slavery is bad" even though it does happen in some places in the world.

mdpye 6y ago

From the article you link: > They sanction funds for sex reassignment surgery in order to fit all of their citizens > into the category of either male or female without any grey area for those who are homosexual > or transgender. So support the T specifically for the purposes of denying the L, G and B. Grandparent looks at least 3/4 correct to me...

awerawerawrjhui 6y ago

Iran subsidises gender reassignment surgeries because homosexuality in Iran is a capital crime. Transitioning is that country's form of conversion therapy; hardly progressive.