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Virtually every meaningful task humans have accomplished has been a result of groups of us putting aside our differences to unite and focus on solving the probl

Virtually every meaningful task humans have accomplished has been a result of groups of us putting aside our differences to unite and focus on solving the problem at hand.

demygale 6y ago
What if the problem at hand is ending structural racism in the workplace?
- jcims 6y ago
  >groups of us not 'all of us'
- moduspol 6y ago
  "Structural racism" is a coded term. We have laws against discrimination and HR departments across the country bending over backwards to avoid lawsuits... but you're not asking about the problems those are intended to solve. When you ask a question like that, what you're really asking is, "why don't workplaces have the outcomes I expect along racial lines when it comes to hiring, compensation, promotion, and more?" And implicitly, "why can't workplaces be forced (or force themselves) toward meeting the outcomes I expect?" Those are different questions, but they're encoded in yours. And they don't really apply to the topic at hand.
  - tehjoker 6y ago
    Avoiding lawsuits is not at all the same as attempting to deal with the issue honestly as opposed to framing it in the same light as some new kind of competitive marketplace.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
jeromegv 6y ago
??? Nice way to rewrite history. Would you say the civil rights movement was successful because it wanted to put aside differences? Or because they fought for their rights, their difference, and the privileged majority had to make concessions?
- jcims 6y ago
  It's actually a perfect example. It's hard to imagine everyone fighting for civil rights was previously aligned on all fronts or agreed with everything that was done along the way.
  - chillacy 6y ago
    In MLK's book "Where Do We Go From Here: Chaos or Community" he talks about some of the internal battles within the civil rights community and how they explicitly tried to forge alliances with other groups. That's when I learned just how brilliant MLK was in this political / social sense.
- moduspol 6y ago
  > Would you say the civil rights movement was successful because it wanted to put aside differences? Absolutely. Everyone involved with the movement put aside their differences to focus on the same goal. It would not have been as successful if everyone showing up for a rally was expected / coerced into supporting other political issues.
- nemo44x 6y ago
  Yes very much so. They found the moral high ground and were able to persuade people on our shared humanity. No one “had” to do anything. People were compelled to as they were persuaded that we had immoral systems in terms of individuals civil rights. A universal appeal to shared humanity is an approach that works. Shaming people into a type of morality will only invite pushback.
  - md_ 6y ago
    For some historical context, contemporaneously, the Civil Rights movement was highly controversial and, among white Americans, fairly unpopular; it's exactly the kind of thing that would have been described as politics best left out of the workplace. "In 1964, in a poll taken nine months after the March on Washington, where Martin Luther King Jr. gave his “I Have a Dream” speech, 74 percent of Americans said such mass demonstrations were more likely to harm than to help the movement for racial equality. In 1965, after marchers in Selma, Alabama, were beaten by state troopers, less than half of Americans said they supported the marchers." (Taken from https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/10/the-next-reconstruction/615475/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/10/the-nex...)
CPLX 6y ago
It’s pretty common for the problem at hand to be a group of violent extremists attempting to seize power.

Virtually every meaningful task humans have accomplished has been a result of groups of us putting aside our differences to unite and focus on solving the problem at hand.

demygale 6y ago

What if the problem at hand is ending structural racism in the workplace?

jcims 6y ago
>groups of us not 'all of us'
moduspol 6y ago
"Structural racism" is a coded term. We have laws against discrimination and HR departments across the country bending over backwards to avoid lawsuits... but you're not asking about the problems those are intended to solve. When you ask a question like that, what you're really asking is, "why don't workplaces have the outcomes I expect along racial lines when it comes to hiring, compensation, promotion, and more?" And implicitly, "why can't workplaces be forced (or force themselves) toward meeting the outcomes I expect?" Those are different questions, but they're encoded in yours. And they don't really apply to the topic at hand.
- tehjoker 6y ago
  Avoiding lawsuits is not at all the same as attempting to deal with the issue honestly as opposed to framing it in the same light as some new kind of competitive marketplace.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

jeromegv 6y ago

??? Nice way to rewrite history. Would you say the civil rights movement was successful because it wanted to put aside differences? Or because they fought for their rights, their difference, and the privileged majority had to make concessions?

jcims 6y ago
It's actually a perfect example. It's hard to imagine everyone fighting for civil rights was previously aligned on all fronts or agreed with everything that was done along the way.
- chillacy 6y ago
  In MLK's book "Where Do We Go From Here: Chaos or Community" he talks about some of the internal battles within the civil rights community and how they explicitly tried to forge alliances with other groups. That's when I learned just how brilliant MLK was in this political / social sense.
moduspol 6y ago
> Would you say the civil rights movement was successful because it wanted to put aside differences? Absolutely. Everyone involved with the movement put aside their differences to focus on the same goal. It would not have been as successful if everyone showing up for a rally was expected / coerced into supporting other political issues.
nemo44x 6y ago
Yes very much so. They found the moral high ground and were able to persuade people on our shared humanity. No one “had” to do anything. People were compelled to as they were persuaded that we had immoral systems in terms of individuals civil rights. A universal appeal to shared humanity is an approach that works. Shaming people into a type of morality will only invite pushback.
- md_ 6y ago
  For some historical context, contemporaneously, the Civil Rights movement was highly controversial and, among white Americans, fairly unpopular; it's exactly the kind of thing that would have been described as politics best left out of the workplace. "In 1964, in a poll taken nine months after the March on Washington, where Martin Luther King Jr. gave his “I Have a Dream” speech, 74 percent of Americans said such mass demonstrations were more likely to harm than to help the movement for racial equality. In 1965, after marchers in Selma, Alabama, were beaten by state troopers, less than half of Americans said they supported the marchers." (Taken from https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/10/the-next-reconstruction/615475/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/10/the-nex...)

CPLX 6y ago

It’s pretty common for the problem at hand to be a group of violent extremists attempting to seize power.