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> Apple was striving for an ideal that is not achievable They are aiming for planned obsolescence. The biggest competitor for new MacBooks are old MacBooks.

fastball 6y ago
> The biggest competitor for new MacBooks are old MacBooks. Maybe true 5-10 years ago, but not true now.
- andybak 6y ago
  Replying from my 7 year old Macbook Air. This might be the last Apple product I'm buying.
  - bigbizisverywyz 6y ago
    Replying from my 6 year old Macbook pro, I would definitely consider buying a new one (space on my 256 GB SSD is getting tight, and it seems a bit of a waste to just upgrade that), but I am hesitant about the newer models.
- starfallg 6y ago
  What has changed in the last 5 years? MacOS users have no legitimate alternative if they want to keep their desktop on macOS. If you want a macOS system legally, there's two options, either buy a new Mac, or an old one.
  - fastball 6y ago
    The competition has just done a lot of catching up in the last few years. Hardware: Other vendors have trackpads with multi-touch (which for me was one of the most amazing things about the first Macbook I ever owned), super high-res screens, and other such features these days. The form factors are thin and stylish as well (there are other aluminum unibody laptops these days). Software: MacOS has gotten worse, Linux distros have continued to catch up, both in the look and behavior of the OS itself but also in terms of the app ecosystem, esp with companies like Valve spending the big bucks to get lots of games running well on Linux. Speaking of games, MacOS continues to suck when it comes to gaming anyway – so for example I do a bit of gaming on my new MBP 16" and the mild chore of dual-booting continues to irk me. I also splashed out for the 8GB GPU upgrade and performance is still not great. Not quite enough for me to make the switch but I'm not a very hardcore gamer. I know people that need a workhorse a bit more than I do (professional video editors and such) who have recently (last 5 years) made the switch from macbooks to things like razers because they want to be able to really push through serious workloads on the go.
    - starfallg 6y ago
      We're not on the same page. My point being that the macOS users that Apple are targeting with this policy has the choice between a new Mac and an used one. That's where they make their money. People that just want good specs at cheap prices are not their target market.
coldtea 6y ago
Consider that their machines maintain the biggest resale value in the PC market (pointing to less long-term issues) and keep working fine for most people for close to a decade or so (including demanding pros in video, music, and graphics), they're doing a bad job at it...
- starfallg 6y ago
  That more or less proves the point. There is very strong demand for old MacBooks because they last. Planned obsolescence is needed to ensure that people upgrade. That can be done multiple ways. This is just one of the approaches and will of course take time to settle in.
  - coldtea 6y ago
    >There is very strong demand for old MacBooks because they last. No, by "old Macbooks" I mean "including current and last year models". Not that only past macbooks had large resale value... >Planned obsolescence is needed to ensure that people upgrade. In the Apple world, upgrading is part of the idea and appeal -- you're not supposed to be running a 10 year old laptop or 2-3 versions old OS. The OS is not about backwards compatibility, it's about moving forward faster... That's part of the appeal of the thing, and part of the reason for the extra control. I don't want legacy 10/20 year old apps and frameworks to be supported, I don't want apps that don't take advantage of the latest frameworks, hardware and OS features, and so on... If "compatible with 30 year old programs" is a desirable feature, there's always Windows.
    - starfallg 6y ago
      >keep working fine for most people for close to a decade or so doesn't mesh with - >you're not supposed to be running a 10 year old laptop or 2-3 versions old OS Planned obsolescence just means artificially shortening the upgrade cycle. That's it. And Apple has been doing this in the Mac world through different methods.
      - dkonofalski 6y ago
dkonofalski 6y ago
That's not what planned obsolescence is. You're talking about intentional obsolescence and that's not what's happening with Apple.

fastball 6y ago

> The biggest competitor for new MacBooks are old MacBooks. Maybe true 5-10 years ago, but not true now.

andybak 6y ago
Replying from my 7 year old Macbook Air. This might be the last Apple product I'm buying.
- bigbizisverywyz 6y ago
  Replying from my 6 year old Macbook pro, I would definitely consider buying a new one (space on my 256 GB SSD is getting tight, and it seems a bit of a waste to just upgrade that), but I am hesitant about the newer models.
starfallg 6y ago
What has changed in the last 5 years? MacOS users have no legitimate alternative if they want to keep their desktop on macOS. If you want a macOS system legally, there's two options, either buy a new Mac, or an old one.
- fastball 6y ago
  The competition has just done a lot of catching up in the last few years. Hardware: Other vendors have trackpads with multi-touch (which for me was one of the most amazing things about the first Macbook I ever owned), super high-res screens, and other such features these days. The form factors are thin and stylish as well (there are other aluminum unibody laptops these days). Software: MacOS has gotten worse, Linux distros have continued to catch up, both in the look and behavior of the OS itself but also in terms of the app ecosystem, esp with companies like Valve spending the big bucks to get lots of games running well on Linux. Speaking of games, MacOS continues to suck when it comes to gaming anyway – so for example I do a bit of gaming on my new MBP 16" and the mild chore of dual-booting continues to irk me. I also splashed out for the 8GB GPU upgrade and performance is still not great. Not quite enough for me to make the switch but I'm not a very hardcore gamer. I know people that need a workhorse a bit more than I do (professional video editors and such) who have recently (last 5 years) made the switch from macbooks to things like razers because they want to be able to really push through serious workloads on the go.
  - starfallg 6y ago
    We're not on the same page. My point being that the macOS users that Apple are targeting with this policy has the choice between a new Mac and an used one. That's where they make their money. People that just want good specs at cheap prices are not their target market.

coldtea 6y ago

Consider that their machines maintain the biggest resale value in the PC market (pointing to less long-term issues) and keep working fine for most people for close to a decade or so (including demanding pros in video, music, and graphics), they're doing a bad job at it...

starfallg 6y ago
That more or less proves the point. There is very strong demand for old MacBooks because they last. Planned obsolescence is needed to ensure that people upgrade. That can be done multiple ways. This is just one of the approaches and will of course take time to settle in.
- coldtea 6y ago
  >There is very strong demand for old MacBooks because they last. No, by "old Macbooks" I mean "including current and last year models". Not that only past macbooks had large resale value... >Planned obsolescence is needed to ensure that people upgrade. In the Apple world, upgrading is part of the idea and appeal -- you're not supposed to be running a 10 year old laptop or 2-3 versions old OS. The OS is not about backwards compatibility, it's about moving forward faster... That's part of the appeal of the thing, and part of the reason for the extra control. I don't want legacy 10/20 year old apps and frameworks to be supported, I don't want apps that don't take advantage of the latest frameworks, hardware and OS features, and so on... If "compatible with 30 year old programs" is a desirable feature, there's always Windows.
  - starfallg 6y ago
    >keep working fine for most people for close to a decade or so doesn't mesh with - >you're not supposed to be running a 10 year old laptop or 2-3 versions old OS Planned obsolescence just means artificially shortening the upgrade cycle. That's it. And Apple has been doing this in the Mac world through different methods.
    - dkonofalski 6y ago

dkonofalski 6y ago

That's not what planned obsolescence is. You're talking about intentional obsolescence and that's not what's happening with Apple.