4 ms·

Apple Reportedly Rejecting Apps With Pay-Per-Install Campaigns

33 points by gyardley 16y ago

kogir 16y ago
I really hope this is true. Nothing frustrates me more than how much being in the top 50 matters, combined with how easy (if expensive) it is to game. Weighting anonymous, real usage information would be a huge boon and make rankings infinitely more useful. Though I suppose it's only a matter of time until that too is gamed.
- gyardley 16y ago
  Oh, I'm almost certain it's true. Apple has always been uncomfy with the pay-per-install business. Unfortunately that was one of the only measureable ways to cost-effectively market iOS apps. Now the best strategy is to try and curry favor with Apple and get a front-of-iTunes promotional slot. Good for Apple but pretty unpredictable for developers.
  - prassarkar 16y ago
    > try and curry favor with Apple and get a front-of-iTunes promotional slot This works in the favor of big name brands who probably have a open sales channel through iAds which makes it easier for them to get promoted. It sucks for indie app developers who have limited ways of getting noticed by the Apple editorial team.
- mike_h 16y ago
  Usefulness is complex: "top 50" was a hack that made sense in a small and novel app world; it makes little sense now that so many tastes are represented in the iOS user base. Pay-per-install is one way to shake more material into view and see if it sticks. Apple makes money (and users benefit) by putting new material in front of eyeballs. They're going to be very careful about how they tweak the rankings.
- nhangen 16y ago
  Well, for someone like me, spending a few $ per day was an inexpensive way to push my app into the charts so that people see it in search. The system is gamed, but not by the little guys. It's the big studios that do it.
- jobu 16y ago
  This doesn't solve anything. The "problem" is that it's very difficult to match people up with apps they will like. Apple gives you two options: 1)search box 2)look at the Top lists The search box is horrendous, and makes it difficult to find an app even if you already know the name. The top lists contain a few gems, but are mostly filled with crap I would never use (especially the free). The companies "gaming" the top free list were trying to work within this framework to get their apps out there and noticed. Some apps do well and stay on the list organically after the install campaigns, and others drop like a rock. I don't think these install campaigns are a great option, but there isn't a better marketing tool at this time. The best thing Apple can do to combat this is improve their search interface.
  - glhaynes 16y ago
    There are also many featured (top-billed, "New and Noteworthy", "Staff Favorites", etc) apps and, at least on the iPad, there's a "Genius" function that recommends apps based on what's on your device already. I agree the store could be considerably better, though.
  - zefhous 16y ago
    Actually, Apple also provides a "Genius" section on the iPhone App Store app. It's been around for a while, but I don't think they've put it in iTunes or pushed it very hard. But yes, in general I agree with your assessment of the problem.
nixarn 16y ago
I think Apple should just changed their algorithm and not ban these systems. You can always buy users anyway (by ads and similar). TapJoy works really well with some games, allows for customers who are unable to buy stuff to still get access to premium content which in returns gives the developer a profit to fuel future development & games.
r00fus 16y ago
They should have done this months ago. A large portion the top-rated apps in Games category have completely perfunctory reviews that are content-free with 100% positive (because no who doesn't get paid installs/reviews the app). Compare and contrast with unique high-rated games like "Battleheart" or "Sword & Poker", where the reviews reveal a lot about the game mechanics. When the App Store ratings become meaningless, I'm forced to use outside channels to "filter" my searches, and that puts Apple's power into someone else's hands (not to mention annoy users).
mikek 16y ago
The best quote from the article: "And it’s good, Tapjoy said, for publishers, who are able to monetize users who wouldn’t otherwise pay." So basically, Tapjoy admits that developers are paying them to send them users who don't pay for apps... so that they can be monetized by more Tapjoy installs. Pay-per-install is a huge pyramid scheme.
jws 16y ago
Guilty. I've been playing Gunner Galaxies HD, and have probably downloaded a dozen apps, then deleted them after one launch just to get in game upgrades.
- j79 16y ago
  Hopefully that's something Apple can monitor as well? There have only been a handful of apps that I've downloaded and deleted right away. Most were in the Top 50 listing with low ratings. Curiosity was the main factor for me downloading. But the turnaround time for deleting was almost instant. I never understood how a 2 star app could be #5 on a list with other apps that ranked 4/5. If Apple could monitor apps that are downloading and instantly deleted (or deleted within 10 minutes of being downloaded), maybe they could knock them down a few spots (until they eventually fall off the rankings...)
DevX101 16y ago
Bad news for this guy: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2318859 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2318859
- metachris 16y ago
  Link to the mentioned app: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/id399128529?mt=8 http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/id399128529?mt=8 (Killer Apps)
- kumph 16y ago
  That's me. And actually, it's ok. I never expected this revenue stream would last forever, and it's the core business --- the app recommendations --- that's crucial. That's going well. We've got tons of happy users, a few great engineers, some cash in the bank, and several interested investors. In the long, in fact, this move by Apple will only accentuate the need for a good app discovery engine to help find everything outside of the top-50.

33 points by gyardley 16y ago

kogir 16y ago

I really hope this is true. Nothing frustrates me more than how much being in the top 50 matters, combined with how easy (if expensive) it is to game. Weighting anonymous, real usage information would be a huge boon and make rankings infinitely more useful. Though I suppose it's only a matter of time until that too is gamed.

gyardley 16y ago
Oh, I'm almost certain it's true. Apple has always been uncomfy with the pay-per-install business. Unfortunately that was one of the only measureable ways to cost-effectively market iOS apps. Now the best strategy is to try and curry favor with Apple and get a front-of-iTunes promotional slot. Good for Apple but pretty unpredictable for developers.
- prassarkar 16y ago
  > try and curry favor with Apple and get a front-of-iTunes promotional slot This works in the favor of big name brands who probably have a open sales channel through iAds which makes it easier for them to get promoted. It sucks for indie app developers who have limited ways of getting noticed by the Apple editorial team.
mike_h 16y ago
Usefulness is complex: "top 50" was a hack that made sense in a small and novel app world; it makes little sense now that so many tastes are represented in the iOS user base. Pay-per-install is one way to shake more material into view and see if it sticks. Apple makes money (and users benefit) by putting new material in front of eyeballs. They're going to be very careful about how they tweak the rankings.
nhangen 16y ago
Well, for someone like me, spending a few $ per day was an inexpensive way to push my app into the charts so that people see it in search. The system is gamed, but not by the little guys. It's the big studios that do it.
jobu 16y ago
This doesn't solve anything. The "problem" is that it's very difficult to match people up with apps they will like. Apple gives you two options: 1)search box 2)look at the Top lists The search box is horrendous, and makes it difficult to find an app even if you already know the name. The top lists contain a few gems, but are mostly filled with crap I would never use (especially the free). The companies "gaming" the top free list were trying to work within this framework to get their apps out there and noticed. Some apps do well and stay on the list organically after the install campaigns, and others drop like a rock. I don't think these install campaigns are a great option, but there isn't a better marketing tool at this time. The best thing Apple can do to combat this is improve their search interface.
- glhaynes 16y ago
  There are also many featured (top-billed, "New and Noteworthy", "Staff Favorites", etc) apps and, at least on the iPad, there's a "Genius" function that recommends apps based on what's on your device already. I agree the store could be considerably better, though.
- zefhous 16y ago
  Actually, Apple also provides a "Genius" section on the iPhone App Store app. It's been around for a while, but I don't think they've put it in iTunes or pushed it very hard. But yes, in general I agree with your assessment of the problem.

nixarn 16y ago

I think Apple should just changed their algorithm and not ban these systems. You can always buy users anyway (by ads and similar). TapJoy works really well with some games, allows for customers who are unable to buy stuff to still get access to premium content which in returns gives the developer a profit to fuel future development & games.

r00fus 16y ago

They should have done this months ago. A large portion the top-rated apps in Games category have completely perfunctory reviews that are content-free with 100% positive (because no who doesn't get paid installs/reviews the app). Compare and contrast with unique high-rated games like "Battleheart" or "Sword & Poker", where the reviews reveal a lot about the game mechanics. When the App Store ratings become meaningless, I'm forced to use outside channels to "filter" my searches, and that puts Apple's power into someone else's hands (not to mention annoy users).

mikek 16y ago

The best quote from the article: "And it’s good, Tapjoy said, for publishers, who are able to monetize users who wouldn’t otherwise pay." So basically, Tapjoy admits that developers are paying them to send them users who don't pay for apps... so that they can be monetized by more Tapjoy installs. Pay-per-install is a huge pyramid scheme.

jws 16y ago

Guilty. I've been playing Gunner Galaxies HD, and have probably downloaded a dozen apps, then deleted them after one launch just to get in game upgrades.

j79 16y ago
Hopefully that's something Apple can monitor as well? There have only been a handful of apps that I've downloaded and deleted right away. Most were in the Top 50 listing with low ratings. Curiosity was the main factor for me downloading. But the turnaround time for deleting was almost instant. I never understood how a 2 star app could be #5 on a list with other apps that ranked 4/5. If Apple could monitor apps that are downloading and instantly deleted (or deleted within 10 minutes of being downloaded), maybe they could knock them down a few spots (until they eventually fall off the rankings...)

DevX101 16y ago

Bad news for this guy: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2318859 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2318859

metachris 16y ago
Link to the mentioned app: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/id399128529?mt=8 http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/id399128529?mt=8 (Killer Apps)
kumph 16y ago
That's me. And actually, it's ok. I never expected this revenue stream would last forever, and it's the core business --- the app recommendations --- that's crucial. That's going well. We've got tons of happy users, a few great engineers, some cash in the bank, and several interested investors. In the long, in fact, this move by Apple will only accentuate the need for a good app discovery engine to help find everything outside of the top-50.