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It really is a crass and inflammatory statement, though. The 13% number may be supported by data, but the actual meaning and phrasing of the statement is actual

It really is a crass and inflammatory statement, though. The 13% number may be supported by data, but the actual meaning and phrasing of the statement is actually highly opinionated. First, it's a fact that black Americans are over-policed and over-prosecuted compared to white Americans. It is reasonable to believe that the conviction rates are skewed. Second, there is the nasty business of the phrasing "...responsible for...". It is a reasonable perspective to have that if black Americans engage in more violence, it is because they have been subjected to more violence and deprived of opportunity. And that, ultimately, is in many cases, the responsibility of white Americans. And then, sometimes people just commit murder, regardless of race. Without the context of a fully-rendered explicit argument, the implied argument in that statement seems to be one of some kind of innate racial disposition. Which people should rightly reject, if not censor. As noted, the "I'm simply running a test" comment was not censored. So perhaps it isn't the data point that is censored, but the implied argument that you seem to be making. I understand that it can be frustrating to have a 'fact' censored, especially if your intent is to have a productive discussion about a difficult topic. However, as laid out above, that 'fact' is not as simple as your test makes it out to be. It is a statement derived from statistical data that was collected by a government agency. If you cited it as such, and left out the language connecting moral responsibility with a racial group, it would be a more truthful and objective representation of fact, and might not be censored the same way. The test seems to loosely support this, and actually indicates the censorship being applied on reddit is actually quite effective. Edit: On a related note, it is interesting how guarded I feel even replying to something like this. It's as if I want not to even be part of such a conversation publicly for fear of algorithmic misinterpretation of my meaning. I assume others feel this way, too, based on the OP. That's not the world any of us want to live in. It's not so much I mind publicly published information being collected and analyzed, but that I fear it being utilized in some grand corporate conspiracy. Perhaps we should legislate not against information collection and analysis, but antisocial behavior analysis conspiracies.

garbagetime 6y ago
The statistic is automatically (as in, by a robot, not by a person) removed. I only ever noticed because I made a long comment arguing against the racist use of the statistic (where I linked the table the statistic is from, etc.). However, I'm simply against statistics being banned. I didn't bother with all the extra stuff in my experiment, because it's not important for testing the robot which removes the comments immediately and automatically.
- bonestormii_ 6y ago
  But it wasn't banned in one example where the statistic was cited. Aside from the subreddit, the only difference was the additional context that "this is a test of censorship". I will note, however, that your original comment has now been flagged and is invisible, cooling this whole discussion. While I object to the statistic and think that censorship of statements including that statistic may actually be productive in some cases, I think that this conversation has the potential to be productive, and I regret that the meta-conversation about censorship is not possible.
  - garbagetime 6y ago
    Well, it's easy to test. ======================================= Attempt six: - Result: no removal - Subreddit: /r/askreddit - Comment: >Hello, please don't mind this comment, I'm simply running an experiment about censorship on reddit. Did you know that black Americans (who make up just 13.4% of the population) are, nonetheless, responsible for 56% of homicides?[6] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Something about the phrasing of the comment has stopped it from being removed. It was silly of me to let my wish of not offending people get in the way of scientific investigation. Still, I think it is not because of the polite preface that the comment has not been removed, and I will test it by including the polite preface to the comment which was removed. -------------------------------------------------------------- Attempt seven: - Result: instant, automatic removal - Subreddit: /r/askreddit - Comment: >Hello, please don't mind this comment, I'm simply running an experiment about censorship on reddit. This is something I just can't wrap my head around: Did you know that according to FBI statistics, black Americans, despite making up only 13% of the population, are responsible for 56% of homicides in the US?[7] -------------------------------------------------------------- So, it is clear that there is something about the contents of this segment which causes comments to be automatically removed (at the very least, on /r/askreddit) "This is something I just can't wrap my head around: Did you know that according to FBI statistics, black Americans, despite making up only 13% of the population, are responsible for 56% of homicides in the US?". I'm guessing that it's as simple as the fact that I used the less commonly used 13.4% in the non-censored comment, whereas I used the more commonly used 13% in the censored comment. I'll now run some experiments to narrow down what exactly are the conditions for removal. Results will be placed on https://pastebin.com/Z6G0B7kA https://pastebin.com/Z6G0B7kA. I'll do a write up later, when I've fully understood the extent of the censorship. [6]https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/j2l13b/whats_the_dumbest_thing_you_actually_believed/g77y6yo/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/j2l13b/whats_the... (comment now edited in an attempt to avoid being banned by the subreddit mods) [7]https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/j2ocv1/what_motivational_quote_is_actually_terrible_if/g77zi5d/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/j2ocv1/what_moti...
thegrimmest 6y ago
> It is a reasonable perspective to have that if black Americans engage in more violence, it is because they have been subjected to more violence and deprived of opportunity. And that, ultimately, is in many cases, the responsibility of white Americans. I disagree that this is a reasonable perspective at all. Adult people are wholy responsible for their actions. This fundemental fact underpins our whole society. I would say that this statistic is primarily used to explain disproportionate encounters with (and subsequently death at the hands of) police. It's important to note that black people are also massively overrepresented as victims of violent crime. This suggests that black communities are generally more violent and therefore more likely to be policed. This fact along with others (like the behaviours of majority black police departments) can be used to construct in good faith a strong argument that there is no epidemic of police racism. This argument is not very popular, so it seems to get censored.
- fesoliveira 6y ago
  >Adult people are wholy responsible for their actions. This fundemental fact underpins our whole society. You say that is solely fault of the individual, but then say that it "suggests that communities are generally more violent and therefore more likely to be policed". So, if it is the fault of each black individual, as you claim is the underpinning of society, why are black communities being more policed? >This fact along with others (like the behaviours of majority black police departments) can be used to construct in good faith a strong argument that there is no epidemic of police racism. Being this the case, wherein lies the issue: the black community or the police institution that trains its members to be more aggressive and fearful of black communities? Keep in mind that only one of the two is in fact an institution funded by the public that undergoes training. The biggest issue with these kinds of arguments is that it does not take in consideration that black communities are marginalized and target of harassment. This is institutionalized in the sense that the training the harassing people receive teaches them to harass and keeps telling them that they will get killed otherwise. This is not present only in the police, but in other facets of society as well. Look at how many videos of black americans being followed by security in malls and store there are on social media. This shows a pattern that keeps happening, and in unfortunately in many situations escalate to injury or death.

garbagetime 6y ago

The statistic is automatically (as in, by a robot, not by a person) removed. I only ever noticed because I made a long comment arguing against the racist use of the statistic (where I linked the table the statistic is from, etc.). However, I'm simply against statistics being banned. I didn't bother with all the extra stuff in my experiment, because it's not important for testing the robot which removes the comments immediately and automatically.

bonestormii_ 6y ago
But it wasn't banned in one example where the statistic was cited. Aside from the subreddit, the only difference was the additional context that "this is a test of censorship". I will note, however, that your original comment has now been flagged and is invisible, cooling this whole discussion. While I object to the statistic and think that censorship of statements including that statistic may actually be productive in some cases, I think that this conversation has the potential to be productive, and I regret that the meta-conversation about censorship is not possible.
- garbagetime 6y ago
  Well, it's easy to test. ======================================= Attempt six: - Result: no removal - Subreddit: /r/askreddit - Comment: >Hello, please don't mind this comment, I'm simply running an experiment about censorship on reddit. Did you know that black Americans (who make up just 13.4% of the population) are, nonetheless, responsible for 56% of homicides?[6] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Something about the phrasing of the comment has stopped it from being removed. It was silly of me to let my wish of not offending people get in the way of scientific investigation. Still, I think it is not because of the polite preface that the comment has not been removed, and I will test it by including the polite preface to the comment which was removed. -------------------------------------------------------------- Attempt seven: - Result: instant, automatic removal - Subreddit: /r/askreddit - Comment: >Hello, please don't mind this comment, I'm simply running an experiment about censorship on reddit. This is something I just can't wrap my head around: Did you know that according to FBI statistics, black Americans, despite making up only 13% of the population, are responsible for 56% of homicides in the US?[7] -------------------------------------------------------------- So, it is clear that there is something about the contents of this segment which causes comments to be automatically removed (at the very least, on /r/askreddit) "This is something I just can't wrap my head around: Did you know that according to FBI statistics, black Americans, despite making up only 13% of the population, are responsible for 56% of homicides in the US?". I'm guessing that it's as simple as the fact that I used the less commonly used 13.4% in the non-censored comment, whereas I used the more commonly used 13% in the censored comment. I'll now run some experiments to narrow down what exactly are the conditions for removal. Results will be placed on https://pastebin.com/Z6G0B7kA https://pastebin.com/Z6G0B7kA. I'll do a write up later, when I've fully understood the extent of the censorship. [6]https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/j2l13b/whats_the_dumbest_thing_you_actually_believed/g77y6yo/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/j2l13b/whats_the... (comment now edited in an attempt to avoid being banned by the subreddit mods) [7]https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/j2ocv1/what_motivational_quote_is_actually_terrible_if/g77zi5d/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/j2ocv1/what_moti...

thegrimmest 6y ago

> It is a reasonable perspective to have that if black Americans engage in more violence, it is because they have been subjected to more violence and deprived of opportunity. And that, ultimately, is in many cases, the responsibility of white Americans. I disagree that this is a reasonable perspective at all. Adult people are wholy responsible for their actions. This fundemental fact underpins our whole society. I would say that this statistic is primarily used to explain disproportionate encounters with (and subsequently death at the hands of) police. It's important to note that black people are also massively overrepresented as victims of violent crime. This suggests that black communities are generally more violent and therefore more likely to be policed. This fact along with others (like the behaviours of majority black police departments) can be used to construct in good faith a strong argument that there is no epidemic of police racism. This argument is not very popular, so it seems to get censored.

fesoliveira 6y ago
>Adult people are wholy responsible for their actions. This fundemental fact underpins our whole society. You say that is solely fault of the individual, but then say that it "suggests that communities are generally more violent and therefore more likely to be policed". So, if it is the fault of each black individual, as you claim is the underpinning of society, why are black communities being more policed? >This fact along with others (like the behaviours of majority black police departments) can be used to construct in good faith a strong argument that there is no epidemic of police racism. Being this the case, wherein lies the issue: the black community or the police institution that trains its members to be more aggressive and fearful of black communities? Keep in mind that only one of the two is in fact an institution funded by the public that undergoes training. The biggest issue with these kinds of arguments is that it does not take in consideration that black communities are marginalized and target of harassment. This is institutionalized in the sense that the training the harassing people receive teaches them to harass and keeps telling them that they will get killed otherwise. This is not present only in the police, but in other facets of society as well. Look at how many videos of black americans being followed by security in malls and store there are on social media. This shows a pattern that keeps happening, and in unfortunately in many situations escalate to injury or death.