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The point of reusable bags is not to save the miniscule amount of energy it takes to make a plastic bag. It's to keep plastic bags out of the waste stream where

by imgabe 6y ago

The point of reusable bags is not to save the miniscule amount of energy it takes to make a plastic bag. It's to keep plastic bags out of the waste stream where they end up clogging rivers and take thousands of years to decompose.

bargl 6y ago
It's the law of unintended consequences. I used cloth bags thinking I was doing awesome. Then I found an article saying I had to use them 1000 times to equal the same carbon footprint of a plastic bag. (Not the article I'm linking below, can't find it.) I've also been to countries where these bags make it into the ocean and become micro plastics. As with all things there are pros and cons. Most of our civilization has cons for the environment, but from what I can tell the best situation for most people who's garbage makes it to a landfill is to use mult-reuse recycled plastic bags. Being as I've already made the commitment to the cloth bags I just have to keep using them until they hit their 131st use, then keep going. https://stanfordmag.org/contents/paper-plastic-or-reusable https://stanfordmag.org/contents/paper-plastic-or-reusable
- Polylactic_acid 6y ago
  The carbon footprint of making a cloth or plastic bag is so insignificant. Just walk instead of driving once and you have offset a lifetime of bags. Since Australia banned single use plastic bags at supermarkets I have not seen a single bag floating around the street which used to be a common sight.
- asdff 6y ago
  I couldn't care less about the footprint. Every time you see a pile of trash on the side of the road, in a river, on a branch, it will 9/10 times involve a ripped up plastic bag caught on something sharp. These things are tumble weeds in urban areas. It's a serious source of litter that is nonexistent if you have a bag you need to use next time.
- KozmoNau7 6y ago
  One of the cloth shopping bags I use was inherited from my grandpa, 24 years ago. I'm not joking, it's a sturdy cotton canvas bag that has lasted perhaps 30 years of shopping at this point. Another bag I've had since 2009, which I know because I got it from a nutrition experiment I participated in. They get washed once in a while when they inevitably get dirty and I can repair them quite easily if a stitch finally fails or they get tears, which hasn't happened yet. People need to keep and use what they already have instead of lazily buying more new stuff all the time.
  - bargl 6y ago
    This is, I believe the best solution.
tgsovlerkhgsel 6y ago
Do you have any solid data on how much of the European waste stream ends up in rivers or oceans? I'm pretty confident that it's minuscule locally (these aren't European rivers: https://www.google.com/search?q=plastic+waste+river&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=plastic+waste+river&tbm=isch), but I couldn't find solid data on waste that gets first exported, then dumped into a river.
- imgabe 6y ago
  I don't know, but even if they end up in a landfill, they still take a long time to break down. If they take longer to decompose than their life cycle, there's going to be an ever-increasing number of plastic bags in the waste. That's clearly not sustainable. Say it takes 1 year (probably less) from when a bag is created to when it gets thrown away. After it gets thrown away, it takes 100-1000 years to completely decompose. That means bags are entering the landfill faster than they are "leaving" via decomposition. That's going to be a problem. After enough time we'd just be like a malicious or poorly-designed AI that covered the Earth in plastic bags rather than paper clips.
  - wongarsu 6y ago
    In general Europe isn't big on land fills. Space isn't nearly as plentiful as in the US, which makes just burning any unrecycled waste a much more attractive alternative.
  - lmm 6y ago
    > Say it takes 1 year (probably less) from when a bag is created to when it gets thrown away. After it gets thrown away, it takes 100-1000 years to completely decompose. That means bags are entering the landfill faster than they are "leaving" via decomposition. Supposing for the sake of the argument you're right, that means we need enough landfill space for 500 years' worth of plastic bags. Is that really so much space that it's a problem?
    - smsm42 6y ago
      Not sure how you got 500 years. That obviously depends on how much landfill-able space we've got. In US, that's a lot.
nostromo 6y ago
Instead of banning plastic bags, there should be a 5 cent returnable deposit on them. This works wonders for getting aluminum cans into the proper waste stream.
- asdff 6y ago
  It also works wonders for having bins turned over and dumped out onto the sidewalk in search of returnables. There are pros and cons.

by imgabe 6y ago

bargl 6y ago

It's the law of unintended consequences. I used cloth bags thinking I was doing awesome. Then I found an article saying I had to use them 1000 times to equal the same carbon footprint of a plastic bag. (Not the article I'm linking below, can't find it.) I've also been to countries where these bags make it into the ocean and become micro plastics. As with all things there are pros and cons. Most of our civilization has cons for the environment, but from what I can tell the best situation for most people who's garbage makes it to a landfill is to use mult-reuse recycled plastic bags. Being as I've already made the commitment to the cloth bags I just have to keep using them until they hit their 131st use, then keep going. https://stanfordmag.org/contents/paper-plastic-or-reusable https://stanfordmag.org/contents/paper-plastic-or-reusable

Polylactic_acid 6y ago
The carbon footprint of making a cloth or plastic bag is so insignificant. Just walk instead of driving once and you have offset a lifetime of bags. Since Australia banned single use plastic bags at supermarkets I have not seen a single bag floating around the street which used to be a common sight.
asdff 6y ago
I couldn't care less about the footprint. Every time you see a pile of trash on the side of the road, in a river, on a branch, it will 9/10 times involve a ripped up plastic bag caught on something sharp. These things are tumble weeds in urban areas. It's a serious source of litter that is nonexistent if you have a bag you need to use next time.
KozmoNau7 6y ago
One of the cloth shopping bags I use was inherited from my grandpa, 24 years ago. I'm not joking, it's a sturdy cotton canvas bag that has lasted perhaps 30 years of shopping at this point. Another bag I've had since 2009, which I know because I got it from a nutrition experiment I participated in. They get washed once in a while when they inevitably get dirty and I can repair them quite easily if a stitch finally fails or they get tears, which hasn't happened yet. People need to keep and use what they already have instead of lazily buying more new stuff all the time.
- bargl 6y ago
  This is, I believe the best solution.

tgsovlerkhgsel 6y ago

Do you have any solid data on how much of the European waste stream ends up in rivers or oceans? I'm pretty confident that it's minuscule locally (these aren't European rivers: https://www.google.com/search?q=plastic+waste+river&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=plastic+waste+river&tbm=isch), but I couldn't find solid data on waste that gets first exported, then dumped into a river.

imgabe 6y ago
I don't know, but even if they end up in a landfill, they still take a long time to break down. If they take longer to decompose than their life cycle, there's going to be an ever-increasing number of plastic bags in the waste. That's clearly not sustainable. Say it takes 1 year (probably less) from when a bag is created to when it gets thrown away. After it gets thrown away, it takes 100-1000 years to completely decompose. That means bags are entering the landfill faster than they are "leaving" via decomposition. That's going to be a problem. After enough time we'd just be like a malicious or poorly-designed AI that covered the Earth in plastic bags rather than paper clips.
- wongarsu 6y ago
  In general Europe isn't big on land fills. Space isn't nearly as plentiful as in the US, which makes just burning any unrecycled waste a much more attractive alternative.
- lmm 6y ago
  > Say it takes 1 year (probably less) from when a bag is created to when it gets thrown away. After it gets thrown away, it takes 100-1000 years to completely decompose. That means bags are entering the landfill faster than they are "leaving" via decomposition. Supposing for the sake of the argument you're right, that means we need enough landfill space for 500 years' worth of plastic bags. Is that really so much space that it's a problem?
  - smsm42 6y ago
    Not sure how you got 500 years. That obviously depends on how much landfill-able space we've got. In US, that's a lot.

nostromo 6y ago

Instead of banning plastic bags, there should be a 5 cent returnable deposit on them. This works wonders for getting aluminum cans into the proper waste stream.

asdff 6y ago
It also works wonders for having bins turned over and dumped out onto the sidewalk in search of returnables. There are pros and cons.