3 ms·

Is that automation or scale? Doing things on a large scale can be more efficient and require less labor, but McDonald's is still hiring people to do effectively

by Klinky 6y ago

Is that automation or scale? Doing things on a large scale can be more efficient and require less labor, but McDonald's is still hiring people to do effectively the same thing in the stores as they did 50 years ago. A lot of industrial food tech is not new or cutting edge, and has limits, like you can't freeze dry a fully-made hamburger for later consumption.

Animats 6y ago
That problem was solved over 50 years ago, but it wasn't cost effective.[1] [1] https://youtu.be/FmXLqImT1wE https://youtu.be/FmXLqImT1wE
LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
Does it matter? There are refrigerated burgers of all sorts available in the supermarkets, you only have to microwave or bake them after unpacking. I think I've even seen some where you leave them in the packaging during microwaving. Never tried them, so far. I really mean fully 'assembled' and prepared burgers, not only the patties. In a box like the ones from the golden M, just printed different.
- Klinky 6y ago
  It does, because large scale lends itself to automation more easily, but even still, you have manual labor with unloading and loading, maintaining and reconfiguring the line, quality control, packaging, and delivery. A lot of these processes are not new, and have been around for decades. The McDonald's store doesn't have a machine make your hamburger, there is still significant manual labor involved, which hasn't really changed in decades. Even your frozen burger likely had significant manual labor investment in it at the factory it was produced. Also by "fully prepared", try adding fresh ingredients like lettuce, tomato, onion, freezing it and then microwaving it. I am sure it will be enjoyable to the palate. Even without the fresh ingredients, most will find the microwave burger inferior to even the cheapest McDonald's burger.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
    Hm. I don't know. Bakeries for the buns are highly automated. The 'assembly' and packaging could be too, like for deep frozen pizza. Also Sri Racha helps with almost anything! ;> Have you ever tried to 'tune' a quarterpounder, double-cheese, or simple cheesburger with mild (green cap/Huy Fong alike) Sri Racha? Just a few small splotches.
    - Klinky 6y ago
      There has been automation in factories, but the point is that the innovation hasn't continued, and that the automation seen in factories typically stays in factories, which require volume/scale. There have been "minor" incremental improvements over the years, but industrialized food production was heavily automated all the way back in the 50's. You simply cannot put a machine that pumps out 10,000 frozen pizzas an hour into a Domino's storefront, and when you scale it down, it becomes too costly, impractical, or the product quality is not the same as that desired. It's basically the "last mile" problem. When we talk of burger-flipping robots replacing the McDonald's worker, the answer isn't "McDonald's is already highly automated", as they still have a huge number of employees doing manual labor at every store. There is no burger-flipping robot, and their factories featuring automation(as most factories have for decades) hasn't really changed the number of employees they need in each store.
      - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
        We seem to talk about different things, not understanding what each other is trying to say. Let me wind back to my initial question, and freely associate from there: Yes, Yes! I do understand efficiencies of scale. I asked you because you said there are no ready made burgers, which are deep frozen, able to being warmed up again at the time of use by whatever means. I questioned if that matters because there already refrigerated(although not deep frozen) burgers available in the supermarkets, so not a really long shelf life(I think about a week, have to recheck that next time in store), but who cares if the supply chain delivers? I further question that this isn't fully automatable because almost fully robotic deep frozen pizza production does exist at scale in factories already in operation for a long time, to be pipelined into the fridges of supermarkets. Or the documentaries showing them in operation from the inside are fake news, but what do I know? I don't see why that shouldn't be possible with burgers. Btw. there is no need to flip anything in McD for the classics as I recall, with the exception of that McRib thing and something fishy. At least that was the case when I've been crew-trainer for about a year somewhere around 1988/1989. At that time we got the clamshell grills/BBQs which made flipping obsolete. Similar for the buns, 12 small or 6 large on a plate, to be put into some horizontal slot, toast, done. Why McD doesn't produce deepfrozen stuff for supermarkets is their decision, not necessarily a technical one. Maybe they fear law-suits from their franchisees? Maybe it makes more economic sense for them to offer the "experience" and full menu all the time? Maybe they don't want to compete pricewise with alternative choices right next to them in the fridge? A (non-smart) fridge in the supermarket doesn't ask "Do you want fries with that?" (for now) So that was that. Almost. Last mile... Yes? As in deep frozen pizza from the supermarket/grocer. Be it by shopping in person, online, via phone, app, who cares? You said NO! I said BOO! :) Are we clear now?

by Klinky 6y ago

Animats 6y ago

That problem was solved over 50 years ago, but it wasn't cost effective.[1] [1] https://youtu.be/FmXLqImT1wE https://youtu.be/FmXLqImT1wE

LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago

Does it matter? There are refrigerated burgers of all sorts available in the supermarkets, you only have to microwave or bake them after unpacking. I think I've even seen some where you leave them in the packaging during microwaving. Never tried them, so far. I really mean fully 'assembled' and prepared burgers, not only the patties. In a box like the ones from the golden M, just printed different.

Klinky 6y ago
It does, because large scale lends itself to automation more easily, but even still, you have manual labor with unloading and loading, maintaining and reconfiguring the line, quality control, packaging, and delivery. A lot of these processes are not new, and have been around for decades. The McDonald's store doesn't have a machine make your hamburger, there is still significant manual labor involved, which hasn't really changed in decades. Even your frozen burger likely had significant manual labor investment in it at the factory it was produced. Also by "fully prepared", try adding fresh ingredients like lettuce, tomato, onion, freezing it and then microwaving it. I am sure it will be enjoyable to the palate. Even without the fresh ingredients, most will find the microwave burger inferior to even the cheapest McDonald's burger.
- LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
  Hm. I don't know. Bakeries for the buns are highly automated. The 'assembly' and packaging could be too, like for deep frozen pizza. Also Sri Racha helps with almost anything! ;> Have you ever tried to 'tune' a quarterpounder, double-cheese, or simple cheesburger with mild (green cap/Huy Fong alike) Sri Racha? Just a few small splotches.
  - Klinky 6y ago
    There has been automation in factories, but the point is that the innovation hasn't continued, and that the automation seen in factories typically stays in factories, which require volume/scale. There have been "minor" incremental improvements over the years, but industrialized food production was heavily automated all the way back in the 50's. You simply cannot put a machine that pumps out 10,000 frozen pizzas an hour into a Domino's storefront, and when you scale it down, it becomes too costly, impractical, or the product quality is not the same as that desired. It's basically the "last mile" problem. When we talk of burger-flipping robots replacing the McDonald's worker, the answer isn't "McDonald's is already highly automated", as they still have a huge number of employees doing manual labor at every store. There is no burger-flipping robot, and their factories featuring automation(as most factories have for decades) hasn't really changed the number of employees they need in each store.
    - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
      We seem to talk about different things, not understanding what each other is trying to say. Let me wind back to my initial question, and freely associate from there: Yes, Yes! I do understand efficiencies of scale. I asked you because you said there are no ready made burgers, which are deep frozen, able to being warmed up again at the time of use by whatever means. I questioned if that matters because there already refrigerated(although not deep frozen) burgers available in the supermarkets, so not a really long shelf life(I think about a week, have to recheck that next time in store), but who cares if the supply chain delivers? I further question that this isn't fully automatable because almost fully robotic deep frozen pizza production does exist at scale in factories already in operation for a long time, to be pipelined into the fridges of supermarkets. Or the documentaries showing them in operation from the inside are fake news, but what do I know? I don't see why that shouldn't be possible with burgers. Btw. there is no need to flip anything in McD for the classics as I recall, with the exception of that McRib thing and something fishy. At least that was the case when I've been crew-trainer for about a year somewhere around 1988/1989. At that time we got the clamshell grills/BBQs which made flipping obsolete. Similar for the buns, 12 small or 6 large on a plate, to be put into some horizontal slot, toast, done. Why McD doesn't produce deepfrozen stuff for supermarkets is their decision, not necessarily a technical one. Maybe they fear law-suits from their franchisees? Maybe it makes more economic sense for them to offer the "experience" and full menu all the time? Maybe they don't want to compete pricewise with alternative choices right next to them in the fridge? A (non-smart) fridge in the supermarket doesn't ask "Do you want fries with that?" (for now) So that was that. Almost. Last mile... Yes? As in deep frozen pizza from the supermarket/grocer. Be it by shopping in person, online, via phone, app, who cares? You said NO! I said BOO! :) Are we clear now?