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> just throw UBI money at them and warehouse them in apartments like cattle I think this is how the bottom portion of Maslow's hierarchy is often dismissed. W

by pfranz 6y ago

> just throw UBI money at them and warehouse them in apartments like cattle I think this is how the bottom portion of Maslow's hierarchy is often dismissed. What I think the parent is talking about is higher up in the hierarchy--esteem needs. In our current society, most people get fulfillment through their job or raising kids. You often hear about issues with empty nest or retirement because people have trouble losing that purpose in their life. I've heard a lot of people bring up this dilemma, but not a lot of discussion about solutions. Often, they seem to imply work is the only way for fullfilment and don't even mention raising kids. I think history has a bunch of examples. None are going to be a good fit for everyone and I can imagine many people just being warehoused, consuming media with no other purpose. Historically, you saw well-to-do women run charities outside of raising children. A lot of scientists were very well to do people following their whims. For retirees, they can find purpose in maintaining a garden, playing music, or something else that offers personal fulfillment.

komali2 6y ago
That's quite the strawman of the argument. I mean, why bring up UBI? Communists also talk about the issues of capitalism, and it'd be kinda funny to hear them try to integrate "income" into their curtencyless philosophy. > think history has a bunch of examples. Which part of history has automation and post scarcity? This would be news to me! > consuming media with no other purpose. Far be it for me to judge what people do with their time. I hate running but there's these maniacs that run marathons.
- pfranz 6y ago
  > That's quite the strawman of the argument. I wasn't trying to make an argument or refute anything you said. I liked that you brought up Maslow and was hoping to steer the conversation back to what the parent was saying. The UBI quote came directly from the parent post. UBI comes up a lot with liberals in the US as a response--often it's dismissed because (assuming it works) it only solves the base of the pyramid. (I honestly have never heard post-scarcity or automating away jobs brought up by conservatives in the US) > Which part of history has automation and post scarcity? Apologies, I felt like I was pretty clear when I was referring to portions of society and not society as a whole. Women only recently became part of the traditional workforce. Women would often marry and bare children rather young and affluent would send kids to boarding school. This gave them a lot of time outside of child rearing. A lot of history's scientists were independently wealthy. > Far be it for me to judge what people do with their time. I'm not intending to put words in the parent poster's mouth, but the implication of warehousing and forgetting low-skilled people I politely put as "consuming media with no other purpose." The fear is more like high suicide rates, high levels of depression, and addiction. You're certainly allowed to not judge--I'm not sure "judge" would be the word I'd use for how I would feel about those people, but the common discussion when this gets brought up is if and what could be done to address it, because UBI (assuming it was a workable solution) wouldn't.

by pfranz 6y ago

komali2 6y ago

That's quite the strawman of the argument. I mean, why bring up UBI? Communists also talk about the issues of capitalism, and it'd be kinda funny to hear them try to integrate "income" into their curtencyless philosophy. > think history has a bunch of examples. Which part of history has automation and post scarcity? This would be news to me! > consuming media with no other purpose. Far be it for me to judge what people do with their time. I hate running but there's these maniacs that run marathons.

pfranz 6y ago
> That's quite the strawman of the argument. I wasn't trying to make an argument or refute anything you said. I liked that you brought up Maslow and was hoping to steer the conversation back to what the parent was saying. The UBI quote came directly from the parent post. UBI comes up a lot with liberals in the US as a response--often it's dismissed because (assuming it works) it only solves the base of the pyramid. (I honestly have never heard post-scarcity or automating away jobs brought up by conservatives in the US) > Which part of history has automation and post scarcity? Apologies, I felt like I was pretty clear when I was referring to portions of society and not society as a whole. Women only recently became part of the traditional workforce. Women would often marry and bare children rather young and affluent would send kids to boarding school. This gave them a lot of time outside of child rearing. A lot of history's scientists were independently wealthy. > Far be it for me to judge what people do with their time. I'm not intending to put words in the parent poster's mouth, but the implication of warehousing and forgetting low-skilled people I politely put as "consuming media with no other purpose." The fear is more like high suicide rates, high levels of depression, and addiction. You're certainly allowed to not judge--I'm not sure "judge" would be the word I'd use for how I would feel about those people, but the common discussion when this gets brought up is if and what could be done to address it, because UBI (assuming it was a workable solution) wouldn't.