5 ms·

Make a living spying on people, then smugly talk down to them when they don't appreciate being spied on. The only one attacking strangers online is the markete

Make a living spying on people, then smugly talk down to them when they don't appreciate being spied on. The only one attacking strangers online is the marketer who feels entitled to my data without my consent.

NicolasGorden 6y ago
> entitled to my data without my consent. How dare you. I never said I wanted your data without your consent. I've never emailed anyone who didn't sign up. I request you please not spread lies about me. I find it interesting that the people whose reaction is most viscerally anti marketing are the same who make up lies in their anti-marketing arguments.
- beervirus 6y ago
  If I join a mailing list, I'm signing up for emails. Not for tracking. If you actually obtain informed consent about the tracking from everyone you spy on, I'll eat my hat.
  - NicolasGorden 6y ago
    If you join a mailing list that I'm involved in, you will have to click 'agree to privacy policy'. The privacy policy explicitly states tracking pixels in emails. The privacy policy template I generally provide users isn't very long and the language is quite plain and easy to understand. I instruct my clients to provide valuable content in their mailers. That users get these valuable content products for free in exchange for agreeing to the privacy policy. Even then, they can still get the free, quality content my clients produce without tracking if they choose to turn off images in email. It's really very simple. This might not conform to whatever standard you create in your head of informed consent, but it certainly satisfies the lawyers I've dealt with. You don't have to eat your hat. But it would be nice to hear you apologize for spreading lies about me. That would be a sign to me that you are an honorable person who made a mistake. Because I do not violate consent and I resent the accusation, I'm categorically not a spammer. There are actual monsters in this world if you want to go casting your stones. Why throw them at someone you don't know to have done anything wrong?
    - beervirus 6y ago
      Yes, people click through boilerplate without reading it. Yes, lawyers are lawyers (and I say that as a lawyer myself). Story at 11. Anyway that's why I stressed informed consent. Do you think 10% of the subscribers have read any of that and understand the tracking you're doing? How about even 1%?
      - NicolasGorden 6y ago
        > the marketer who feels entitled to my data without my consent. > I stressed informed consent You continue to lie. Your accusation was clear, it's still there. You accused me of contacting people without consent, AKA spamming. You have yet to retract your false allegations. I'm not going to engage with someone who openly lies and fails to retract falsehoods that the person spreads. If I was into cheap shots, I'd use your profession to judge you. But I think of that as very immature and even bordering on bigotry. Instead I'm calling out specific bad actions you committed against me. I am not a spammer sir, and such accusations are completely uncalled for. I don't take kindly to being accused of criminal behavior.
        beervirus 6y ago
        > You accused me of contacting people without consent, AKA spamming. I know reading is hard, but that’s not what I said at all. I’m talking about whether people consent to the spying/tracking that you have already admitted you do. Stop putting words in my mouth and then calling them lies. Learn to read, and then address what I actually said, not what you made up that I didn’t say.
        NicolasGorden 6y ago
        Here's the exact quote from you: > The only one attacking strangers online is the marketer who feels entitled to my data without my consent. Ok, so you didn't directly say I spam. But you are a lawyer. You know that you can't gather peoples email data without their consent. Doing so is against the can spam act. Saying I feel 'entitled to non consensual data gather' has a connotation and innuendo that I am doing that. So either I'm a compliant mailer, and therefore I have consent, or I act as an 'entitled to your data without consent' spammer. The law is pretty clear on this, at least I've had a good half dozen attorneys tell me so. When I proved that I'm a mailer and not a spammer, you moved the goal posts from 'consent' to 'informed consent'. Moving goal posts is a weasel thing to do. Ultimately I'm probably just talking to a troll, few people have such low levels of self-awareness that they will lecture others on morality while insinuating lies, moving goalposts and playing disingenuous games.
- dang 6y ago
  Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. It's nasty and tedious. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
dang 6y ago
Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. It's nasty and tedious. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

NicolasGorden 6y ago

> entitled to my data without my consent. How dare you. I never said I wanted your data without your consent. I've never emailed anyone who didn't sign up. I request you please not spread lies about me. I find it interesting that the people whose reaction is most viscerally anti marketing are the same who make up lies in their anti-marketing arguments.

beervirus 6y ago
If I join a mailing list, I'm signing up for emails. Not for tracking. If you actually obtain informed consent about the tracking from everyone you spy on, I'll eat my hat.
- NicolasGorden 6y ago
  If you join a mailing list that I'm involved in, you will have to click 'agree to privacy policy'. The privacy policy explicitly states tracking pixels in emails. The privacy policy template I generally provide users isn't very long and the language is quite plain and easy to understand. I instruct my clients to provide valuable content in their mailers. That users get these valuable content products for free in exchange for agreeing to the privacy policy. Even then, they can still get the free, quality content my clients produce without tracking if they choose to turn off images in email. It's really very simple. This might not conform to whatever standard you create in your head of informed consent, but it certainly satisfies the lawyers I've dealt with. You don't have to eat your hat. But it would be nice to hear you apologize for spreading lies about me. That would be a sign to me that you are an honorable person who made a mistake. Because I do not violate consent and I resent the accusation, I'm categorically not a spammer. There are actual monsters in this world if you want to go casting your stones. Why throw them at someone you don't know to have done anything wrong?
  - beervirus 6y ago
    Yes, people click through boilerplate without reading it. Yes, lawyers are lawyers (and I say that as a lawyer myself). Story at 11. Anyway that's why I stressed informed consent. Do you think 10% of the subscribers have read any of that and understand the tracking you're doing? How about even 1%?
    - NicolasGorden 6y ago
      > the marketer who feels entitled to my data without my consent. > I stressed informed consent You continue to lie. Your accusation was clear, it's still there. You accused me of contacting people without consent, AKA spamming. You have yet to retract your false allegations. I'm not going to engage with someone who openly lies and fails to retract falsehoods that the person spreads. If I was into cheap shots, I'd use your profession to judge you. But I think of that as very immature and even bordering on bigotry. Instead I'm calling out specific bad actions you committed against me. I am not a spammer sir, and such accusations are completely uncalled for. I don't take kindly to being accused of criminal behavior.
      - beervirus 6y ago
        > You accused me of contacting people without consent, AKA spamming. I know reading is hard, but that’s not what I said at all. I’m talking about whether people consent to the spying/tracking that you have already admitted you do. Stop putting words in my mouth and then calling them lies. Learn to read, and then address what I actually said, not what you made up that I didn’t say.
        NicolasGorden 6y ago
        Here's the exact quote from you: > The only one attacking strangers online is the marketer who feels entitled to my data without my consent. Ok, so you didn't directly say I spam. But you are a lawyer. You know that you can't gather peoples email data without their consent. Doing so is against the can spam act. Saying I feel 'entitled to non consensual data gather' has a connotation and innuendo that I am doing that. So either I'm a compliant mailer, and therefore I have consent, or I act as an 'entitled to your data without consent' spammer. The law is pretty clear on this, at least I've had a good half dozen attorneys tell me so. When I proved that I'm a mailer and not a spammer, you moved the goal posts from 'consent' to 'informed consent'. Moving goal posts is a weasel thing to do. Ultimately I'm probably just talking to a troll, few people have such low levels of self-awareness that they will lecture others on morality while insinuating lies, moving goalposts and playing disingenuous games.
dang 6y ago
Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. It's nasty and tedious. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

dang 6y ago

Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. It's nasty and tedious. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html