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> Free speech doesn't mean I have to respect you. Nobody seriously cares about respect as much as about their freedom. > I can say "Guys, this dude is a flat

> Free speech doesn't mean I have to respect you. Nobody seriously cares about respect as much as about their freedom. > I can say "Guys, this dude is a flat Earther. Let's make fun of the moron" The sad fact is that you seem to only support freedom of express progressive ideas. Consider someone saying "Guys, this dude is gay. Let's make fun of the moron". I guess you won't support freedom of speech for that person.

renewiltord 6y ago
Read the context: it was about respect. I even quoted it for you. But we can proceed anyway if the conversation has shifted. > Consider someone saying "Guys, this dude is gay. Let's make fun of the moron". I guess you won't support freedom speech for that person. Oh dude, I support that like nothing else, but I will use my freedom of speech to absolutely shun that individual. I absolutely encourage you to admit to any homophobia, etc. That way I know to shun you and to ask my friends to shun you. It is my freedom of speech and expression that permits me to do that. Free individuals must have the liberty to freely associate. And from the liberty to freely associate comes the liberty to choose to not associate. And if you want to speak up and ask for me to be shunned, I encourage you to do that. Because I believe in a freedom of speech and expression that is almost absolute. You will never find me making laws that say that expressing homophobia or racist opinions or whatever must be outlawed. Say it loud, say it proud, you have the right.
- lightgreen 6y ago
  Even if the constitution allows free speech, but practically if free speech is not possible, it is not freedom. Note in the authoritarian totalitarian states there are no laws against free speech. And usually it is not government actors how punish you for expressing dissenting opinions, it is often mob and your employer. These states are not free. So to some degree SV is not a free place, even if it there are no laws prohibiting free expression.
  - renewiltord 6y ago
    Interesting, so you want to restrict people from saying things because you think they're saying things you don't like. And you use this stance to claim you're advocating for freedom without seeing the inherent contradiction.
    - lightgreen 6y ago
      > you want to restrict people from saying things because you think they're saying things you don't like Of course not. How did you get that from my comment?
      - colinmhayes 6y ago
        Your idea of freedom of speech means I'm not free to criticize you.
        lightgreen 6y ago
        Constructively criticise, yes please. But bullying, eg doxxing, petitioning to get fired, calling mob to intimidate etc, that's not exactly freedom of speech.
        colinmhayes 6y ago
        > But bullying, eg doxxing, petitioning to get fired, calling mob to intimidate etc, that's not exactly freedom of speech. Yes it is. It's the best way to fight back against speech you disagree with.
        lightgreen 6y ago
        Well, I must admit I respect you for your consistent views, although I radically disagree with you. I only wish you not to get into the place and time where you are in the opposition to the aggressive majority. It's quite uncomfortable.

renewiltord 6y ago

Read the context: it was about respect. I even quoted it for you. But we can proceed anyway if the conversation has shifted. > Consider someone saying "Guys, this dude is gay. Let's make fun of the moron". I guess you won't support freedom speech for that person. Oh dude, I support that like nothing else, but I will use my freedom of speech to absolutely shun that individual. I absolutely encourage you to admit to any homophobia, etc. That way I know to shun you and to ask my friends to shun you. It is my freedom of speech and expression that permits me to do that. Free individuals must have the liberty to freely associate. And from the liberty to freely associate comes the liberty to choose to not associate. And if you want to speak up and ask for me to be shunned, I encourage you to do that. Because I believe in a freedom of speech and expression that is almost absolute. You will never find me making laws that say that expressing homophobia or racist opinions or whatever must be outlawed. Say it loud, say it proud, you have the right.

lightgreen 6y ago
Even if the constitution allows free speech, but practically if free speech is not possible, it is not freedom. Note in the authoritarian totalitarian states there are no laws against free speech. And usually it is not government actors how punish you for expressing dissenting opinions, it is often mob and your employer. These states are not free. So to some degree SV is not a free place, even if it there are no laws prohibiting free expression.
- renewiltord 6y ago
  Interesting, so you want to restrict people from saying things because you think they're saying things you don't like. And you use this stance to claim you're advocating for freedom without seeing the inherent contradiction.
  - lightgreen 6y ago
    > you want to restrict people from saying things because you think they're saying things you don't like Of course not. How did you get that from my comment?
    - colinmhayes 6y ago
      Your idea of freedom of speech means I'm not free to criticize you.
      - lightgreen 6y ago
        Constructively criticise, yes please. But bullying, eg doxxing, petitioning to get fired, calling mob to intimidate etc, that's not exactly freedom of speech.
        colinmhayes 6y ago
        > But bullying, eg doxxing, petitioning to get fired, calling mob to intimidate etc, that's not exactly freedom of speech. Yes it is. It's the best way to fight back against speech you disagree with.
        lightgreen 6y ago
        Well, I must admit I respect you for your consistent views, although I radically disagree with you. I only wish you not to get into the place and time where you are in the opposition to the aggressive majority. It's quite uncomfortable.