3 ms·

I know it’s likely the vaccines are actually going to help against Covid, and I really hope the experts are right, but I can’t shake the feeling that this new w

by moksly 6y ago

I know it’s likely the vaccines are actually going to help against Covid, and I really hope the experts are right, but I can’t shake the feeling that this new world is simply the new normal. So far, expecting things to turn out semi-shitty seems to be the way to go. At first our national health agency didn’t take the threat seriously. Then they took it very seriously but didn’t think we’d see a second wave because our restrictions worked. Heh, now we’re heading toward a winter with high amounts of new restrictions that are targeted at the second wave that is unlikely to lift until sometime next year. And this is in a country that has so far handled the pandemic better than most.

mmm_grayons 6y ago
All normative opinions aside, this cannot become a new normal. People will not tolerate it. The majority of the population will not continue to remain cloistered in a small area due to the vulnerability of a minority. It's also economically untenable. So no, I don't think it will. We may, however, see significantly more deaths from those at risk, or they may be stuck entirely holed-up as a result.
- jdavis703 6y ago
  Deaths are not the only major side-effect of CV-19. Effects in survivors include “brain fog”, blood clots, stroke, weakened heart, etc. I’m not sure we know how many people continue to experience severe symptoms, but it’s likely much higher than the official death rate.
  - djsumdog 6y ago
    This is the new narrative and it's pretty misconstrued. Have you read any of the "long term" effect studies? They're almost all case studies on very specific people. The UK study published out of Charlottesville has 60+ people in it, 8 with their own individual case studies, and all of them are either over 50 or are high risk workers. ANY virus can cause long term neurological damage, especially in the elderly. It's very common. It's WAY too early to claim "permanent damage" for a virus that's literally been with us less than a year. Look at lymes disease. We simply cannot keep living like this under absolutely hysterical fear that has no real basis in fact. We need to start living our lives again.
    - jaybrendansmith 6y ago
      As someone who had Covid-19 this month and is now technically through it, I can attest that I am not old, and this thing does not go away. Heart palpitations, random bouts of exhaustion, inexplicable random sweating, inability to run for any distance. All of these things are real if you get over this. I am of course hoping these all will eventually go away, but I have no evidence that this 'mild' case did not give me permanent heart and lung damage as it attacked my body persistently over 28 days.
  - s1artibartfast 6y ago
    I don't think this contradicts what the parent post said. There may be consequences, but the current status is unlikely to stay in perpetuity. People are not willing to socially distance for the remainder of their lives, even considering the risk of death and major side-effects.
    - jdavis703 6y ago
      There’s a big difference between social isolation (no state is doing this right now), and implementing harm reduction policies (e.g. outdoor gyms.)
      - s1artibartfast 6y ago
        What are you trying to say? Again, what does this have to do with the parent post?
    - mmm_grayons 6y ago
      This is correct, and why I began by stating that this wasn't a normative statement. I wasn't passing judgement on whether or not they ought to continue precautionary measures, I was simply stating that I don't believe they will continue.
mjburgess 6y ago
The alarming thing about the justification of these measures is that it seems it can never be invalidated. Covid is endemic (it is not a pandemic). When exactly will we experience no mass covid deaths? (we experience mass flu deaths). Simply, never. Is it really that in 3yr time we will be "happy" with a 0.2% rate? (ie., 50% of current rate). Will "half the number of grandparents" dying be a tolerable amount? The justification behind everything here is alarmingly short-termism, I can only imagine govs are waiting for some kind of "vaccine" or "health theatre" that will allow people to resume normal behaviour. (cf. airport security theatre exists to encourage people to fly; it is demanded by airlines so people feel flying is safe. One assumes they hope vaccines will play the same role.) However gov.s are at their financial breaking points re Lockdown as a strategy, and it'll be this that goes first. Hard to say what the political ramifications of that are, many middle-class shut-ins simply refuse to believe gov. is a limited actor.
Oricle 6y ago
Please, your going trust people like astrazenica and glc! Just a taste of the billions az pay out for dodgy practices https://www.corp-research.org/astrazeneca https://www.corp-research.org/astrazeneca And glc https://www.corp-research.org/glaxosmithkline https://www.corp-research.org/glaxosmithkline And this is only the stuff they get caught doing. But alas, same people who run these companies and chemical companies (work hand in hand) are the same people behind all your governments! What, you think any of the politicians actually do anything? Lol. Pure puppet show. Look up boris's grandmother. Look who trumps daughter is married to. Every fucking time! These people run your central bank, privately be it the fed reserve (which is why the titanic was sunk, people on that ship were against the formation of the fed reserve and had power, besides saving white star liners, owned by jp Morgan who rothschild's own 80% of) or bank of England. This has been a 2000+ year war from when they killed their King, otherwise known has jesus in English. Yes, Jesus was Jewish and wanted to teach all a better way, not just the isralites. Modern day Jews probably ain't even isralites lol. They are probably Turkish. They ruled with an iron fist for 2000 years before 0AD, they want that power and control over gentiles once more,and the white man out of the way because we are the biggest threat to them with knowledge. And look at you all, good goyhim doing exactly what they want. When asked jump off a cliff, your all asking how high! You all deserve what's coming to you for your ignorance. It's just a shame for the 10% of us your dragging down with you!
postalrat 6y ago
Maybe for a year or so but people will just forget about it and move on. Kinda like smoking which kills 500k americans every year.
djsumdog 6y ago
> new restrictions that are targeted at the second wave that is unlikely to lift until sometime next year The actual number of fatalities are dropping in almost every region. The trouble with "new cases" is they just add to the existing insanely high number, instead of resetting to cases-per-month. A lot of these cases aren't even serious at all. Remember during the H1N1 flu, Obama actually reduced testing to quell fear. And the restrictions are likely going away. It's been months and humanity cannot go on this way. Ecuador high courts have struck down a lot of their lockdown restrictions and emergency powers. In the US, the Stickman decision in PA could be the most important decision of this entire year[0]. We're seeing lockdown protest in Germany, UK and there would be protests in Australia if Victoria didn't go absolutely insane. I realize a lot of people have died, but in the US, 96% of them are over 55. The "long term effects" narrative is taking hold, and I've read the UK case study of 60+ patients published through a Charlottesville journal, and the majority of them were elderly or high risk. https://battlepenguin.com/politics/secondary-effects/ https://battlepenguin.com/politics/secondary-effects/ Only 6k people in the US died without having an additional comorbidity (heart disease, obesity, etc.) It's time to isolate the vulnerable, and let the rest of the population go back to making their own decisions about what risks they want to take with their lives. Offer subsidies for people who want groceries delivered and never want to go out and take any risks again. 100 year from now, historians will look back at 2020 as the year of mass hysteria. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InCIyID5rkE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InCIyID5rkE

by moksly 6y ago

mmm_grayons 6y ago

All normative opinions aside, this cannot become a new normal. People will not tolerate it. The majority of the population will not continue to remain cloistered in a small area due to the vulnerability of a minority. It's also economically untenable. So no, I don't think it will. We may, however, see significantly more deaths from those at risk, or they may be stuck entirely holed-up as a result.

jdavis703 6y ago
Deaths are not the only major side-effect of CV-19. Effects in survivors include “brain fog”, blood clots, stroke, weakened heart, etc. I’m not sure we know how many people continue to experience severe symptoms, but it’s likely much higher than the official death rate.
- djsumdog 6y ago
  This is the new narrative and it's pretty misconstrued. Have you read any of the "long term" effect studies? They're almost all case studies on very specific people. The UK study published out of Charlottesville has 60+ people in it, 8 with their own individual case studies, and all of them are either over 50 or are high risk workers. ANY virus can cause long term neurological damage, especially in the elderly. It's very common. It's WAY too early to claim "permanent damage" for a virus that's literally been with us less than a year. Look at lymes disease. We simply cannot keep living like this under absolutely hysterical fear that has no real basis in fact. We need to start living our lives again.
  - jaybrendansmith 6y ago
    As someone who had Covid-19 this month and is now technically through it, I can attest that I am not old, and this thing does not go away. Heart palpitations, random bouts of exhaustion, inexplicable random sweating, inability to run for any distance. All of these things are real if you get over this. I am of course hoping these all will eventually go away, but I have no evidence that this 'mild' case did not give me permanent heart and lung damage as it attacked my body persistently over 28 days.
- s1artibartfast 6y ago
  I don't think this contradicts what the parent post said. There may be consequences, but the current status is unlikely to stay in perpetuity. People are not willing to socially distance for the remainder of their lives, even considering the risk of death and major side-effects.
  - jdavis703 6y ago
    There’s a big difference between social isolation (no state is doing this right now), and implementing harm reduction policies (e.g. outdoor gyms.)
    - s1artibartfast 6y ago
      What are you trying to say? Again, what does this have to do with the parent post?
  - mmm_grayons 6y ago
    This is correct, and why I began by stating that this wasn't a normative statement. I wasn't passing judgement on whether or not they ought to continue precautionary measures, I was simply stating that I don't believe they will continue.

mjburgess 6y ago

The alarming thing about the justification of these measures is that it seems it can never be invalidated. Covid is endemic (it is not a pandemic). When exactly will we experience no mass covid deaths? (we experience mass flu deaths). Simply, never. Is it really that in 3yr time we will be "happy" with a 0.2% rate? (ie., 50% of current rate). Will "half the number of grandparents" dying be a tolerable amount? The justification behind everything here is alarmingly short-termism, I can only imagine govs are waiting for some kind of "vaccine" or "health theatre" that will allow people to resume normal behaviour. (cf. airport security theatre exists to encourage people to fly; it is demanded by airlines so people feel flying is safe. One assumes they hope vaccines will play the same role.) However gov.s are at their financial breaking points re Lockdown as a strategy, and it'll be this that goes first. Hard to say what the political ramifications of that are, many middle-class shut-ins simply refuse to believe gov. is a limited actor.

Oricle 6y ago

Please, your going trust people like astrazenica and glc! Just a taste of the billions az pay out for dodgy practices https://www.corp-research.org/astrazeneca https://www.corp-research.org/astrazeneca And glc https://www.corp-research.org/glaxosmithkline https://www.corp-research.org/glaxosmithkline And this is only the stuff they get caught doing. But alas, same people who run these companies and chemical companies (work hand in hand) are the same people behind all your governments! What, you think any of the politicians actually do anything? Lol. Pure puppet show. Look up boris's grandmother. Look who trumps daughter is married to. Every fucking time! These people run your central bank, privately be it the fed reserve (which is why the titanic was sunk, people on that ship were against the formation of the fed reserve and had power, besides saving white star liners, owned by jp Morgan who rothschild's own 80% of) or bank of England. This has been a 2000+ year war from when they killed their King, otherwise known has jesus in English. Yes, Jesus was Jewish and wanted to teach all a better way, not just the isralites. Modern day Jews probably ain't even isralites lol. They are probably Turkish. They ruled with an iron fist for 2000 years before 0AD, they want that power and control over gentiles once more,and the white man out of the way because we are the biggest threat to them with knowledge. And look at you all, good goyhim doing exactly what they want. When asked jump off a cliff, your all asking how high! You all deserve what's coming to you for your ignorance. It's just a shame for the 10% of us your dragging down with you!

postalrat 6y ago

Maybe for a year or so but people will just forget about it and move on. Kinda like smoking which kills 500k americans every year.

djsumdog 6y ago

> new restrictions that are targeted at the second wave that is unlikely to lift until sometime next year The actual number of fatalities are dropping in almost every region. The trouble with "new cases" is they just add to the existing insanely high number, instead of resetting to cases-per-month. A lot of these cases aren't even serious at all. Remember during the H1N1 flu, Obama actually reduced testing to quell fear. And the restrictions are likely going away. It's been months and humanity cannot go on this way. Ecuador high courts have struck down a lot of their lockdown restrictions and emergency powers. In the US, the Stickman decision in PA could be the most important decision of this entire year[0]. We're seeing lockdown protest in Germany, UK and there would be protests in Australia if Victoria didn't go absolutely insane. I realize a lot of people have died, but in the US, 96% of them are over 55. The "long term effects" narrative is taking hold, and I've read the UK case study of 60+ patients published through a Charlottesville journal, and the majority of them were elderly or high risk. https://battlepenguin.com/politics/secondary-effects/ https://battlepenguin.com/politics/secondary-effects/ Only 6k people in the US died without having an additional comorbidity (heart disease, obesity, etc.) It's time to isolate the vulnerable, and let the rest of the population go back to making their own decisions about what risks they want to take with their lives. Offer subsidies for people who want groceries delivered and never want to go out and take any risks again. 100 year from now, historians will look back at 2020 as the year of mass hysteria. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InCIyID5rkE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InCIyID5rkE