4 ms·

These bromides need to be qualified to be of much use. How much reduction? How much money and what kind of housing? What are interesting, meaningful activities

These bromides need to be qualified to be of much use. How much reduction? How much money and what kind of housing? What are interesting, meaningful activities that can be prescribed by some central authority in these circumstances? Those are the difficult public policies that need to be worked on. For example, I'm not so sure that giving folks a small welfare check and putting them in highly subsidized public housing projects is the best solution. I'm sure it does reduce poverty and homelessness with some, but does it also increase unemployment and alcoholism? I don't claim to know the answer, but it's worth exploring. Perhaps a UBI is the answer? Just giving away condoms seems less effective than also creating educational programs. There are plenty of alcoholics with interesting things to do, maybe there is more than just lack of resources at play?

sosuke 6y ago
Learned a new word thanks! I thought it was some amalgamation of bro-this or bro-that. Bromides: a trite and unoriginal idea or remark, typically intended to soothe or placate. "feel-good bromides create the illusion of problem solving"
- dsr_ 6y ago
  They aren't bromides if there's evidence that they work.
- jrumbut 6y ago
  We need a companion word to bromides for cheap cynicism or "feel-bad bromides"
bavell 6y ago
I've taken a liking to UBI lately but I think you hit the nail on the head. It's easy to assert all the benefits or problems with UBI at face value and argue over them but it's much more difficult to judge the relative scale of each and tease out all the interwoven systems that are affected by such a sweeping program. I'd like to see more experiments, trials and studies but ultimately they'll all fall flat because they're not the real deal (still useful, just not 100% accurate). The 'Universal' part is what makes it so interesting to me and also happens to be impossible to test without actually implementing it at a massive scale. Any data gathered from not-truly-universal sources will always be fundamentally flawed from the perspective of what the impacts actually would be in the real economy. There are lots of open questions around UBI but IMO that just means it needs further debate and discourse.
adewinter 6y ago
> I'm not so sure that giving folks a small welfare check and putting them in highly subsidized public housing projects is the best solution. The best solution to what problem, exactly? All of them? > I'm sure it does reduce poverty and homelessness with some, but does it also increase unemployment and alcoholism? It feels like you're shifting the goalposts here. Are you trying to find some kind of silver bullet where one "solution" solves all of these problems at the same time? Each of those "bromides" offers actual good solutions to each of those individual problems. Notable also is that the OP did not call it "welfare" checks or "highly subsidized public" housing. Those extra qualifiers make it quite clear what your agenda/already made opinion is, even when you're attempting to hide it in conciliatory/placating language.
- stolenmerch 6y ago
  > The best solution to what problem, exactly? All of them? The stated problems of poverty and homelessness (and perhaps secondary and tertiary problems). > Each of those "bromides" offers actual good solutions to each of those individual problems. I don't think they do, because they are poorly defined. How much money must be given to reduce poverty? A small welfare check? $1,000 per month in UBI? A $6,000/month stipend from your parents? How much poverty is reduced and how? > Notable also is that the OP did not call it "welfare" checks or "highly subsidized public" housing. That is exactly why I chose those terms, because OP didn't other than using "money" and "housing". They needed to be more precise, in my opinion so I used an established vehicle for giving money and housing as an example. I actually don't have specific policy in mind here, I just feel being too vague about these things doesn't actually help and tends to confuse things.
dsr_ 6y ago
Today's useful search terms to find primary sources: Housing First model Rat Park addiction Iceland teen drinking Colorado abortion rate
- x87678r 6y ago
  Also see Countries by Percentage of Population Living in Poverty Communist Body Count
  - omginternets 6y ago
    >Countries by Percentage of Population Living in Poverty Careful. The US ranks pretty poorly compared to most European countries.

sosuke 6y ago

Learned a new word thanks! I thought it was some amalgamation of bro-this or bro-that. Bromides: a trite and unoriginal idea or remark, typically intended to soothe or placate. "feel-good bromides create the illusion of problem solving"

dsr_ 6y ago
They aren't bromides if there's evidence that they work.
jrumbut 6y ago
We need a companion word to bromides for cheap cynicism or "feel-bad bromides"

bavell 6y ago

I've taken a liking to UBI lately but I think you hit the nail on the head. It's easy to assert all the benefits or problems with UBI at face value and argue over them but it's much more difficult to judge the relative scale of each and tease out all the interwoven systems that are affected by such a sweeping program. I'd like to see more experiments, trials and studies but ultimately they'll all fall flat because they're not the real deal (still useful, just not 100% accurate). The 'Universal' part is what makes it so interesting to me and also happens to be impossible to test without actually implementing it at a massive scale. Any data gathered from not-truly-universal sources will always be fundamentally flawed from the perspective of what the impacts actually would be in the real economy. There are lots of open questions around UBI but IMO that just means it needs further debate and discourse.

adewinter 6y ago

> I'm not so sure that giving folks a small welfare check and putting them in highly subsidized public housing projects is the best solution. The best solution to what problem, exactly? All of them? > I'm sure it does reduce poverty and homelessness with some, but does it also increase unemployment and alcoholism? It feels like you're shifting the goalposts here. Are you trying to find some kind of silver bullet where one "solution" solves all of these problems at the same time? Each of those "bromides" offers actual good solutions to each of those individual problems. Notable also is that the OP did not call it "welfare" checks or "highly subsidized public" housing. Those extra qualifiers make it quite clear what your agenda/already made opinion is, even when you're attempting to hide it in conciliatory/placating language.

stolenmerch 6y ago
> The best solution to what problem, exactly? All of them? The stated problems of poverty and homelessness (and perhaps secondary and tertiary problems). > Each of those "bromides" offers actual good solutions to each of those individual problems. I don't think they do, because they are poorly defined. How much money must be given to reduce poverty? A small welfare check? $1,000 per month in UBI? A $6,000/month stipend from your parents? How much poverty is reduced and how? > Notable also is that the OP did not call it "welfare" checks or "highly subsidized public" housing. That is exactly why I chose those terms, because OP didn't other than using "money" and "housing". They needed to be more precise, in my opinion so I used an established vehicle for giving money and housing as an example. I actually don't have specific policy in mind here, I just feel being too vague about these things doesn't actually help and tends to confuse things.

dsr_ 6y ago

Today's useful search terms to find primary sources: Housing First model Rat Park addiction Iceland teen drinking Colorado abortion rate

x87678r 6y ago
Also see Countries by Percentage of Population Living in Poverty Communist Body Count
- omginternets 6y ago
  >Countries by Percentage of Population Living in Poverty Careful. The US ranks pretty poorly compared to most European countries.