4 ms·

The judge is right in many many things.. but this one caught my eye > Microsoft has had a walled garden. No it doesn't. I have never purchased anything from M

The judge is right in many many things.. but this one caught my eye > Microsoft has had a walled garden. No it doesn't. I have never purchased anything from Microsoft. 90% of the software I have purchased is straight to the vendors (e.g. InternetDownloadManager, ACDSee, etc.). The remaining 10%, even when it comes to Microsoft products (OS, Office), I purchased them back-in-the-day from stores, and I got the CDs/DVDs. Same with computer games. AoE, Diablo I-II-III and expansions, and many more. I know that M$ tried to pull everyone through their (imho) crappy Store, but still, I can get everything I want/need outside their marketplace and straight from the Devs, bypassing their store. Unless the Judge strictly means the mobile app store, in which case, I exited WM6 a 10+ years ago and have no knowledge of this.

readams 6y ago
XBox is the walled garden, not Windows.
- ericmay 6y ago
  Not to mention, the Epic store itself is a walled garden!
  - mantap 6y ago
    The epic store is not a walled garden. If you use Windows you have many choices of App Store, including just downloading from your web browser, and hell if you don't like what's on Windows you can install Linux. If you buy an iPhone you are forced to use the App Store and pay Apple 30% of every digital product you buy on it. It's intensely consumer hostile.
    - ericmay 6y ago
      I'm a consumer, I find it to be liberating. But yea the Epic Store is a walled garden. They don't let me publish whatever I want.
    - sem000 6y ago
      The actual Epic store is a walled garden. You’re intermingling two separate things. Epic won’t let you out a game in their store without taking a cut.
      - gruez 6y ago
        By that logic is your local supermarket a walled garden? They won't let you sell stuff without taking a cut.
        sem000 6y ago
        ... Not sure what point you’re making here. I guess so? They invested and developed their customer base, they deserve a cut of what my products I want them to sell like they take from every product they sell? This is how the supply chain has worked since the beginning of time.
        JumpCrisscross 6y ago
        > is your local supermarket a walled garden? Yes? Of course? That’s the whole point of a supermarket. To curate and distribute in exchange for a cut.
        jasonlotito 6y ago
        You don't know what a walled garden is. A walled garden, or closed platform, is a platform that prevents you from going outside the ecosystem, or platform, in order to use it's features. To continue the supermarket comparison, it would be like a system where you buy pots and pans and a stove and what not from Whole Foods, but you can only use food you purchased from Whole Foods, and anyone wanting to sell you food would have to sell it through Whole Foods.
        JumpCrisscross 6y ago
        Open to closed is on a continuum [1]. What we include or don't include in our analysis is a matter of preference. As such, there is no one true definition of a walled garden. For example, Apple doesn't dictate which electricity provider I use to power its devices. Does that mean it's an open platform? Of course not. The comparison of the App Store to a grocery store is apt. They both leverage their access to demand to control (and extract profits from) the supply side. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_platform https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_platform
    - FullMetalBitch 6y ago
      And if you use xbox you can buy your games from any videogame store in your town. Maybe the new digital editions will be but current ones aren't.
      - sem000 6y ago
        Even if you bought it in the store they already paid the Xbox tax.
    - sem000 6y ago
      It’s not consumer hostile, quite contrary actually. Maybe not pro-consumer or developers who do not want to pay hostile. Also, no one is forced to buy an iPhone. In fact, Android holds a significantly larger market share where you can go do everything you complain Apple doesn’t let you do. I buy the iPhone because I like knowing it will just work.
      - simion314 6y ago
        > Android holds a significantly larger market share where you can go do everything you complain Apple doesn’t let you do. Some stats show iOS has larger market share then Android on US.
        falcolas 6y ago
        A citation would be really nice here; I’ve not seen a chart that’s put Android at less than 70% of the market share (usually it’s over 80%).
        simion314 6y ago
        Sorry what I can do is Google it for you but I have no idea if the first Google results are correct https://www.counterpointresearch.com/us-market-smartphone-share/ https://www.counterpointresearch.com/us-market-smartphone-sh... Apple leads in US smartphones with aprox 40% (not OS but devices) https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/united-states-of-america https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/united-sta... this one shows iOS at 60% https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/mobile/united-states-of-america https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/mobile/unite... Safari has more then 50% share in mobile browsers.
samfisher83 6y ago
You could install whatever you wanted on wm6
542458 6y ago
Due to the preceding Nintendo and Sony I had assumed she was talking about XBox there.
falcolas 6y ago
Whether you’ve used it or not, there is a Windows store. There was also a Windows phone store, and there is currently an Xbox store. The second two examples were and are walled gardens.
- Barrin92 6y ago
  then the judge should have been more precise because this is a night and day difference. If Windows, the operating system itself, would function as a walled garden, that is to say every developer for windows would have to shell over 30% of their revenue, we'd have started a revolution two decades ago. Apple's app store isn't comparable to the XBox store (revenue on the apple store was 50 billion last year, compared to three on the xbox), it's comparable in reach to the Windows ecosystem overall.

readams 6y ago

XBox is the walled garden, not Windows.

ericmay 6y ago
Not to mention, the Epic store itself is a walled garden!
- mantap 6y ago
  The epic store is not a walled garden. If you use Windows you have many choices of App Store, including just downloading from your web browser, and hell if you don't like what's on Windows you can install Linux. If you buy an iPhone you are forced to use the App Store and pay Apple 30% of every digital product you buy on it. It's intensely consumer hostile.
  - ericmay 6y ago
    I'm a consumer, I find it to be liberating. But yea the Epic Store is a walled garden. They don't let me publish whatever I want.
  - sem000 6y ago
    The actual Epic store is a walled garden. You’re intermingling two separate things. Epic won’t let you out a game in their store without taking a cut.
    - gruez 6y ago
      By that logic is your local supermarket a walled garden? They won't let you sell stuff without taking a cut.
      - sem000 6y ago
        ... Not sure what point you’re making here. I guess so? They invested and developed their customer base, they deserve a cut of what my products I want them to sell like they take from every product they sell? This is how the supply chain has worked since the beginning of time.
      - JumpCrisscross 6y ago
        > is your local supermarket a walled garden? Yes? Of course? That’s the whole point of a supermarket. To curate and distribute in exchange for a cut.
        jasonlotito 6y ago
        You don't know what a walled garden is. A walled garden, or closed platform, is a platform that prevents you from going outside the ecosystem, or platform, in order to use it's features. To continue the supermarket comparison, it would be like a system where you buy pots and pans and a stove and what not from Whole Foods, but you can only use food you purchased from Whole Foods, and anyone wanting to sell you food would have to sell it through Whole Foods.
        JumpCrisscross 6y ago
        Open to closed is on a continuum [1]. What we include or don't include in our analysis is a matter of preference. As such, there is no one true definition of a walled garden. For example, Apple doesn't dictate which electricity provider I use to power its devices. Does that mean it's an open platform? Of course not. The comparison of the App Store to a grocery store is apt. They both leverage their access to demand to control (and extract profits from) the supply side. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_platform https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_platform
  - FullMetalBitch 6y ago
    And if you use xbox you can buy your games from any videogame store in your town. Maybe the new digital editions will be but current ones aren't.
    - sem000 6y ago
      Even if you bought it in the store they already paid the Xbox tax.
  - sem000 6y ago
    It’s not consumer hostile, quite contrary actually. Maybe not pro-consumer or developers who do not want to pay hostile. Also, no one is forced to buy an iPhone. In fact, Android holds a significantly larger market share where you can go do everything you complain Apple doesn’t let you do. I buy the iPhone because I like knowing it will just work.
    - simion314 6y ago
      > Android holds a significantly larger market share where you can go do everything you complain Apple doesn’t let you do. Some stats show iOS has larger market share then Android on US.
      - falcolas 6y ago
        A citation would be really nice here; I’ve not seen a chart that’s put Android at less than 70% of the market share (usually it’s over 80%).
        simion314 6y ago
        Sorry what I can do is Google it for you but I have no idea if the first Google results are correct https://www.counterpointresearch.com/us-market-smartphone-share/ https://www.counterpointresearch.com/us-market-smartphone-sh... Apple leads in US smartphones with aprox 40% (not OS but devices) https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/united-states-of-america https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/united-sta... this one shows iOS at 60% https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/mobile/united-states-of-america https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/mobile/unite... Safari has more then 50% share in mobile browsers.

samfisher83 6y ago

You could install whatever you wanted on wm6

542458 6y ago

Due to the preceding Nintendo and Sony I had assumed she was talking about XBox there.

falcolas 6y ago

Whether you’ve used it or not, there is a Windows store. There was also a Windows phone store, and there is currently an Xbox store. The second two examples were and are walled gardens.

Barrin92 6y ago
then the judge should have been more precise because this is a night and day difference. If Windows, the operating system itself, would function as a walled garden, that is to say every developer for windows would have to shell over 30% of their revenue, we'd have started a revolution two decades ago. Apple's app store isn't comparable to the XBox store (revenue on the apple store was 50 billion last year, compared to three on the xbox), it's comparable in reach to the Windows ecosystem overall.