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What if we discover some magic new program that improves every student's scores, but it improves the poorest students the most and the gifted students the least

What if we discover some magic new program that improves every student's scores, but it improves the poorest students the most and the gifted students the least relative to our existing programs? Such a program wouldn't be holding the gifted students back relative to existing education, it would improve them, and it would still reduce the variance. (My comment sonly apply to standardized education, not to streaming students into different programs such as specialprograms for gifted students.)

shasta 16y ago
I don't know why you have to postulate "magic". I didn't say that a program that helps each kid progress as quickly as possible wouldn't reduce the variance. It probably would, as the kids on the bottom have more room for improvement. But I would still expect a large amount of variance. Actually, I just noticed that the "after" graph is clustered near 100%, so it's possible that there still is a large variance, but it's just not measured by the tests that were administered. These are probably standardized test scores and don't really address higher end performance. So I guess my points are: 1. I'm doubtful that the "paint by numbers" approach is what the young Picasso needs. 2. Maybe I'm wrong about (1), but we certainly shouldn't subject the advanced students to this method until higher end performance has been measured. 3. I find the attitude of the author, who used the phrase "even things out" as if it was a good thing, concerning. Evening things out should be an explicit non-goal of education.
- raganwald 16y ago
  Expressions like "magic" are simply ways of making it clear that the notion of what is or isn't possible is orthogonal to the question of what this specific program does or doesn't do. But as far as your points go, the second one is the most interesting. yes, we should have a good look at what happens when "advanced" students are exposed to any method. Some advanced students might even get even better and increase the variance! I can't comment on this program, I know nothing about tutoring. But I know that I personally like breaking things down into little steps, and I think I would have enjoyed a program running on these lines if I was allowed to move at my own pace.

shasta 16y ago

I don't know why you have to postulate "magic". I didn't say that a program that helps each kid progress as quickly as possible wouldn't reduce the variance. It probably would, as the kids on the bottom have more room for improvement. But I would still expect a large amount of variance. Actually, I just noticed that the "after" graph is clustered near 100%, so it's possible that there still is a large variance, but it's just not measured by the tests that were administered. These are probably standardized test scores and don't really address higher end performance. So I guess my points are: 1. I'm doubtful that the "paint by numbers" approach is what the young Picasso needs. 2. Maybe I'm wrong about (1), but we certainly shouldn't subject the advanced students to this method until higher end performance has been measured. 3. I find the attitude of the author, who used the phrase "even things out" as if it was a good thing, concerning. Evening things out should be an explicit non-goal of education.

raganwald 16y ago
Expressions like "magic" are simply ways of making it clear that the notion of what is or isn't possible is orthogonal to the question of what this specific program does or doesn't do. But as far as your points go, the second one is the most interesting. yes, we should have a good look at what happens when "advanced" students are exposed to any method. Some advanced students might even get even better and increase the variance! I can't comment on this program, I know nothing about tutoring. But I know that I personally like breaking things down into little steps, and I think I would have enjoyed a program running on these lines if I was allowed to move at my own pace.