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While this article is off base, there is a distinct lack of leadership in demonstrating effective ways to solve the problem. There is way too much plastic used

While this article is off base, there is a distinct lack of leadership in demonstrating effective ways to solve the problem. There is way too much plastic used for disposable packaging, from foods to toiletries to the infamous heat sealed plastic clamshells. What does an ideal zero plastic life look like? Is it even possible to conduct such a life in the modern world? For example, yogurt. Ubiquitous. Comes in nice little plastic cups, which will, at best, end up in a landfill. Suppose there is a wide agreement in society to phase these plastic cups out: * Do we ban yogurt? * Do we use recyclable glass instead? * Do we use recyclable glass, and only dispense yogurt if you bring a recyclable container for an exchange? * Do we use recyclable glass, only dispense in exchange for a recyclable container, and standardize container shape such that the recycling actually recycles, as opposed to sending the "recycled" container to a landfill anyways? * Do we limit the amount of yogurt containers one can buy in a given timeframe? * Do we create a heavy tax on the container, say 10x the price of the content? Life is short and people may get overwhelmed by too many details. Problem which compounds if there is too much choice. Almost always better to have a standard recipe to follow, than having to figure out a recipe on a case by case basis.

MandieD 6y ago
Glass jars are a standard size and shape, and have a 15 cent deposit, redeemable at the collection machines in the front of the store that also handles other glass and single -use plastic drink bottles. That’s how it works in Germany, but there are plenty of yoghurts sold in non-deposit plastic, for which the seller has to pre-pay the disposal fees.
- soco 6y ago
  The fees are one thing, but are those plastics actually disposed? At last burned?
  - blackbrokkoli 6y ago
    Ideally, there is no plastics. It is glass (it gets washed and reused). The lid is ...a metal sheet or something? Also gets reused. That is the key idea, it is just a process towards that and in the meantime you got to reduce plastic usage somehow.
tcldr 6y ago
Option 2. Or am I missing something? Is it more polluting to manufacture or transport glass? If it's transport, our trajectory is heading to EVs, so that would leave the cost of recycling/manufacture which seems like it would scale well and also benefit from lowering costs of green energy in the long-term.
- cassianoleal 6y ago
  And even if it ends on landfill it's not as bad as plastic as far as I'm aware.
  - FreeFull 6y ago
    Glass is made out of the same stuff that's already in some very common minerals. The two main risks are sharp pieces, and the potential to focus sunlight and start a fire. Otherwise, it's about as dangerous as sand.
- alquemist 6y ago
  Given how prevalent plastic is, my suspicion is that glass is more expensive than plastic. Single use glass seems like a waste, though I haven't run the numbers. Unless we can get to reusable glass. Living in US and walking the aisles of the local supermarket, I don't see how that's possible. The glass-packaged foods come from all around the world, with each company apparently intent on having its own distinctive glass shape. As 'recyclable' material ends up in the landfill more often than not for cost reasons, it seems a monumental task to build a 'reverse distribution' path to send back glass containers thousands a miles away to their original producer for reuse.
  - tcldr 6y ago
    We use tons of bottles for alcoholic beverages without issue. Most of the problems you state can be overcome with fairly simple processes. Standardisation of jar/pot sizes is one, ease of glass sorting and recycling when compared to plastic is another. Humans are smart enough to solve this, what we're missing is policy.
lm28469 6y ago
> For example, yogurt. Ubiquitous. Comes in nice little plastic cups Buy yogurt in 1L or 5L reusable buckets and you get rid of a huge part of the problem
- smt88 6y ago
  I have never seen yogurt in non-plastic containers in the US. There are tiny single-serving sugary yogurts in glass cups now, but that's all we get. That's true for a lot of products in the US. The "invisible hand" has no options.
wongarsu 6y ago
Option two exists in Germany. It's basically the same glas shape as a glass of pickles.
lucideer 6y ago
As everyone else replying has already said: option 2 is fine. However, your option list has enough glaring omissions that it seems as much of a hit list as the article: 1. Eliminating disposable packaging is a worthy goal but reducing the harm of individual disposable packaging materials is always going to be part of the solution in the medium term, and there is PLENTY of innovation in this area. Not least in less environmentally intensive disposable yoghurt containers. 2. You keep repeating "recyclable" but never "reusable". e.g. ceramic is also used for yoghurt containers where I live, as well as glass, and it's common to see both types of familiar-looking pots reused throughout households. 3. Other commenters have mentioned larger containers (which incidentally is what I do). Reusing every reusable container might become unwieldy if you're buying a few dozen single-serves per shop but if you're consuming that much yoghurt then big containers are going to be much better in many ways. 4. I haven't seen this happen with yoghurt just yet but it's extremely common to have bulk stores with refill facilities for milk, syrups, honeys, peanut butters, dry foods & washing liquids, so I see no reason this couldn't happen for yoghurt.
- alquemist 6y ago
  Thanks. While I wrote the OP I had 'reusable standardized glass jars' as a possible end goal in mind. I'm heartened to hear this goal is feasible. The question remains on how to move the status quo from 'myriad shape plastic containers' as is common in US to 'reusable standardized glass jars' as apparently is common in Germany. This was also common in the country of my childhood due to poverty: there was a single type of yogurt period, thus standardization was trivial, plastic was rare and glass was expensive, thus reuse. In particular as recycling around here is a sad joke. People are harangued to perform the ritual separation of 'recyclable' stuff, which then the garbage company either sends thousands of miles offshore to unclear fate, or just transports it exactly to the same landfill as the regular garbage. Forget about reuse. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/21/us-plastic-recycling-landfills https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/21/us-plastic-r...
ajfjrbfbf 6y ago
Just make your own yogourt it takes like 15 min and costs a little less.
- Chris2048 6y ago
  The whole thing, including heating to just under boiling?

MandieD 6y ago

Glass jars are a standard size and shape, and have a 15 cent deposit, redeemable at the collection machines in the front of the store that also handles other glass and single -use plastic drink bottles. That’s how it works in Germany, but there are plenty of yoghurts sold in non-deposit plastic, for which the seller has to pre-pay the disposal fees.

soco 6y ago
The fees are one thing, but are those plastics actually disposed? At last burned?
- blackbrokkoli 6y ago
  Ideally, there is no plastics. It is glass (it gets washed and reused). The lid is ...a metal sheet or something? Also gets reused. That is the key idea, it is just a process towards that and in the meantime you got to reduce plastic usage somehow.

tcldr 6y ago

Option 2. Or am I missing something? Is it more polluting to manufacture or transport glass? If it's transport, our trajectory is heading to EVs, so that would leave the cost of recycling/manufacture which seems like it would scale well and also benefit from lowering costs of green energy in the long-term.

cassianoleal 6y ago
And even if it ends on landfill it's not as bad as plastic as far as I'm aware.
- FreeFull 6y ago
  Glass is made out of the same stuff that's already in some very common minerals. The two main risks are sharp pieces, and the potential to focus sunlight and start a fire. Otherwise, it's about as dangerous as sand.
alquemist 6y ago
Given how prevalent plastic is, my suspicion is that glass is more expensive than plastic. Single use glass seems like a waste, though I haven't run the numbers. Unless we can get to reusable glass. Living in US and walking the aisles of the local supermarket, I don't see how that's possible. The glass-packaged foods come from all around the world, with each company apparently intent on having its own distinctive glass shape. As 'recyclable' material ends up in the landfill more often than not for cost reasons, it seems a monumental task to build a 'reverse distribution' path to send back glass containers thousands a miles away to their original producer for reuse.
- tcldr 6y ago
  We use tons of bottles for alcoholic beverages without issue. Most of the problems you state can be overcome with fairly simple processes. Standardisation of jar/pot sizes is one, ease of glass sorting and recycling when compared to plastic is another. Humans are smart enough to solve this, what we're missing is policy.

lm28469 6y ago

> For example, yogurt. Ubiquitous. Comes in nice little plastic cups Buy yogurt in 1L or 5L reusable buckets and you get rid of a huge part of the problem

smt88 6y ago
I have never seen yogurt in non-plastic containers in the US. There are tiny single-serving sugary yogurts in glass cups now, but that's all we get. That's true for a lot of products in the US. The "invisible hand" has no options.

wongarsu 6y ago

Option two exists in Germany. It's basically the same glas shape as a glass of pickles.

lucideer 6y ago

As everyone else replying has already said: option 2 is fine. However, your option list has enough glaring omissions that it seems as much of a hit list as the article: 1. Eliminating disposable packaging is a worthy goal but reducing the harm of individual disposable packaging materials is always going to be part of the solution in the medium term, and there is PLENTY of innovation in this area. Not least in less environmentally intensive disposable yoghurt containers. 2. You keep repeating "recyclable" but never "reusable". e.g. ceramic is also used for yoghurt containers where I live, as well as glass, and it's common to see both types of familiar-looking pots reused throughout households. 3. Other commenters have mentioned larger containers (which incidentally is what I do). Reusing every reusable container might become unwieldy if you're buying a few dozen single-serves per shop but if you're consuming that much yoghurt then big containers are going to be much better in many ways. 4. I haven't seen this happen with yoghurt just yet but it's extremely common to have bulk stores with refill facilities for milk, syrups, honeys, peanut butters, dry foods & washing liquids, so I see no reason this couldn't happen for yoghurt.

alquemist 6y ago
Thanks. While I wrote the OP I had 'reusable standardized glass jars' as a possible end goal in mind. I'm heartened to hear this goal is feasible. The question remains on how to move the status quo from 'myriad shape plastic containers' as is common in US to 'reusable standardized glass jars' as apparently is common in Germany. This was also common in the country of my childhood due to poverty: there was a single type of yogurt period, thus standardization was trivial, plastic was rare and glass was expensive, thus reuse. In particular as recycling around here is a sad joke. People are harangued to perform the ritual separation of 'recyclable' stuff, which then the garbage company either sends thousands of miles offshore to unclear fate, or just transports it exactly to the same landfill as the regular garbage. Forget about reuse. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/21/us-plastic-recycling-landfills https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/21/us-plastic-r...

ajfjrbfbf 6y ago

Just make your own yogourt it takes like 15 min and costs a little less.

Chris2048 6y ago
The whole thing, including heating to just under boiling?