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I've experienced this kind of software working on an hourly contract via UpWork. It would take screenshots at random points in 10 minute intervals, and would tr

by kjakm 6y ago

I've experienced this kind of software working on an hourly contract via UpWork. It would take screenshots at random points in 10 minute intervals, and would track number of mouse clicks/key presses. I think everything was logged officially at the end of the day so if you happened to be on a personal site during the screenshot you could delete it and you'd lose those 10 minutes from the total number of hours you had logged. Honestly, I didn't mind it - but I was getting paid really well for the job and I'm not sure the client ever bothered checking the logs (it was just the system UpWork made you use to guarantee payment so there was also some benefit for me). In that specific use case, especially because it helped guarantee my payments (if the you hours using the software it's very difficult for the client to dispute those), it didn't feel as dystopian as it sounds. If my current employer (full-time, salary) started using something like this I think I'd feel very differently about it.

renewiltord 6y ago
I never do that on Upwork (always allow manual tracking) but I also liberally end contracts if things don't go fast. Might as well eat the loss. Don't have time to go looking through screenshots. But I wonder sometimes if its worth it to force auto-tracking just maybe for the upworker's sake (like it keeps them on a task they'd want to do but are having trouble sticking to). But that's low-end stuff. For mid-end stuff it's all milestone-based anyway. For way high-end stuff I don't care except that thing gets done and then I need high quality contractor who keeps me up to date. If he can't communicate and I start getting anxiety about the outcome, he's got to go.
- tmikaeld 6y ago
  Be aware that hires can see a log and reviews of previous hires. Which makes it hard to get new professional hires when the grades are too bad, I almost have a perfect score since I pay above average, but even the single disgruntled hire have been mentioned (I cancelled the work since no results was shown).
Hokusai 6y ago
> it didn't feel as dystopian as it sounds My mother grew up in a dictatorship, and most of the time is like any other country. People would come on vacations and they will not even notice any difference. The only problem is when you get into problems, then you have no recourse. Dystopias in movies are felt each minute of the day, real dystopias are not like that. You should read Kafka's "The Process". Everything is normal until it is not. It is a better depiction of a dictatorship than a 3 hours condensed movie.
- will_pseudonym 6y ago
  > Kafka's "The Process" This is also known as "The Trial"[0]. Just a fantastic, brutal work. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trial
  - sumosudo 6y ago
    And lately we have that playing out in real life at the Assange Trial.
- kthejoker2 6y ago
  Reminds me of this harrowingly well written article about living through the Sri Lankan civil war Some choice quotes > People suffering, dying, and protesting all around you, while you think about dinner. > I was looking through some old photos for this article and the mix is shocking to me now. Almost offensive. There’s a burnt body in front of my office. Then I’m playing Scrabble with friends. There’s bomb smoke rising in front of the mall. Then I’m at a concert. There’s a long line for gas. Then I’m at a nightclub. This is all within two weeks. > [There] is not a uniform experience of chaos. For some people it destroys their bodies, others their hearts, but for most people it’s just a low-level hum at the back of their minds. https://gen.medium.com/i-lived-through-collapse-america-is-already-there-ba1e4b54c5fc https://gen.medium.com/i-lived-through-collapse-america-is-a...
_Gyan_ 6y ago
I've never installed that tracker and never been asked to, by clients. Never had a dispute or lost payment. It's mostly about choosing clients with care.
- kjakm 6y ago
  It depends what time of job you do. I only ever installed it for one contract which was the only hourly contract I ever did. The requirements of the project were regularly changing and there were no minimum/maximum number of hours (the job went for about 16 months). Given there was no max hours and the hourly rate was high it seemed fair to me.

by kjakm 6y ago

renewiltord 6y ago

I never do that on Upwork (always allow manual tracking) but I also liberally end contracts if things don't go fast. Might as well eat the loss. Don't have time to go looking through screenshots. But I wonder sometimes if its worth it to force auto-tracking just maybe for the upworker's sake (like it keeps them on a task they'd want to do but are having trouble sticking to). But that's low-end stuff. For mid-end stuff it's all milestone-based anyway. For way high-end stuff I don't care except that thing gets done and then I need high quality contractor who keeps me up to date. If he can't communicate and I start getting anxiety about the outcome, he's got to go.

tmikaeld 6y ago
Be aware that hires can see a log and reviews of previous hires. Which makes it hard to get new professional hires when the grades are too bad, I almost have a perfect score since I pay above average, but even the single disgruntled hire have been mentioned (I cancelled the work since no results was shown).

Hokusai 6y ago

> it didn't feel as dystopian as it sounds My mother grew up in a dictatorship, and most of the time is like any other country. People would come on vacations and they will not even notice any difference. The only problem is when you get into problems, then you have no recourse. Dystopias in movies are felt each minute of the day, real dystopias are not like that. You should read Kafka's "The Process". Everything is normal until it is not. It is a better depiction of a dictatorship than a 3 hours condensed movie.

will_pseudonym 6y ago
> Kafka's "The Process" This is also known as "The Trial"[0]. Just a fantastic, brutal work. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trial
- sumosudo 6y ago
  And lately we have that playing out in real life at the Assange Trial.
kthejoker2 6y ago
Reminds me of this harrowingly well written article about living through the Sri Lankan civil war Some choice quotes > People suffering, dying, and protesting all around you, while you think about dinner. > I was looking through some old photos for this article and the mix is shocking to me now. Almost offensive. There’s a burnt body in front of my office. Then I’m playing Scrabble with friends. There’s bomb smoke rising in front of the mall. Then I’m at a concert. There’s a long line for gas. Then I’m at a nightclub. This is all within two weeks. > [There] is not a uniform experience of chaos. For some people it destroys their bodies, others their hearts, but for most people it’s just a low-level hum at the back of their minds. https://gen.medium.com/i-lived-through-collapse-america-is-already-there-ba1e4b54c5fc https://gen.medium.com/i-lived-through-collapse-america-is-a...

_Gyan_ 6y ago

I've never installed that tracker and never been asked to, by clients. Never had a dispute or lost payment. It's mostly about choosing clients with care.

kjakm 6y ago
It depends what time of job you do. I only ever installed it for one contract which was the only hourly contract I ever did. The requirements of the project were regularly changing and there were no minimum/maximum number of hours (the job went for about 16 months). Given there was no max hours and the hourly rate was high it seemed fair to me.