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Absent links to research papers confirming outlandish claims on plastic bags' environmental safety. This article reads as a petrochem industry mouthpiece. And w

Absent links to research papers confirming outlandish claims on plastic bags' environmental safety. This article reads as a petrochem industry mouthpiece. And we know marine mammals die in large quantities due to ingested plastic trash - bags, bottles, nets etc. My friend lives on Canary islands, and she's observing casual plastic pollution (said bags, straws, cig butts ) with growing despair and disgust; paper bags may contribute to global warming by releasing methane while rotting in landfills, but they won't choke turtles and won't strand dolphins.

WalterBright 6y ago
BTW, if you leave a plastic back outside for a while in the sun, it'll disintegrate in a month or two. I discovered this because I believed "plastic is not degradable" and used one to patch a leak in my roof. I have since switched to using soda cans. Cut the ends off, slice up the side, and flatten it. It makes for marvelous leak and flashing patch material. So far it has lasted for years :-)
- syspec 6y ago
  Yes most things will also magically disappear when burned
- m000 6y ago
  Plastic is not biodegradable, which is what is desired from an environmental perspective. But it is photodegradable [1], which results in eventual breakdown to microplastics. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photodegradation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photodegradation
  - magicalhippo 6y ago
    However marine plastic can get buried, due to seaweed decomposing into soil. Here's[1] a recent story about some students finding 20% of the soil being plastic on a nearby island. On the surface it looks all nice and clean, but the plastic is embedded beneath the surface. [1]: https://www.nrk.no/trondelag/forskere-fant-opptil-20-prosent-plast-i-jordsmonnet-ved-strender-i-trondelag-1.15177225 https://www.nrk.no/trondelag/forskere-fant-opptil-20-prosent...
DoingIsLearning 6y ago
> Absent links to research papers confirming outlandish claims on plastic bags' environmental safety. This article reads as a petrochem industry mouthpiece. Putting on my tinfoil hat... There were quite a few past posts recently about how plastic is not that economical feasible to recycle, about how the Packaging and Petro-Chemical industry is offloading costs to the 'recycling movement', and about how plastic is creating mass scale health issues with hormonal disruption in both animals and humans. Those posts gained traction because the issue is beyond obvious and the general population is concerned. This likely triggered the alarms in the industry who then payed to slip some "counter-argument" piece into HN. I understand that there is no obvious technological solution and that there is no 'economically' interesting replacement for our society's plastic addiction. Nevertheless, going all 'tobacco industry' on this issue is only going to buy them time. They should put the money from their stealth PR into actual R&D instead, in order to solve this mess.
- CodeWriter23 6y ago
  > This likely triggered the alarms in the industry who then payed to slip some "counter-argument" piece into HN. Data point: the OP has 98K+ karma and has been a member since 2007. His/her submission history also seems to be mostly informative. Tin foil hat indeed.
  - DoingIsLearning 6y ago
    The same submission was actually posted twice before from greener accounts, one was flagged the other ignored. It only broke through (to the second page of HN) with this submission. I am not questioning the authenticity of Alex's submission but if you think old accounts can't be bought or rented, for the reward of being able to shape public opinion, then you are in for a surprise. Any forum, once it becomes big enough and relevant enough to shape public opinion, will eventually be used by lobby/PR people.
    - CodeWriter23 6y ago
      That’s why I noted it as a data point, not a fact. Here’s another data point though, starting with the “Keep America Beautiful” campaign with Iron Eyes Cody in the 70’s, the Petroleum Industry’s PRopaganda position has been to transfer responsibility for the scourge of single-use plastics from their industry to the citizenry. This article, if propped up by Big Oil, would represent a major departure from that position.

WalterBright 6y ago

BTW, if you leave a plastic back outside for a while in the sun, it'll disintegrate in a month or two. I discovered this because I believed "plastic is not degradable" and used one to patch a leak in my roof. I have since switched to using soda cans. Cut the ends off, slice up the side, and flatten it. It makes for marvelous leak and flashing patch material. So far it has lasted for years :-)

syspec 6y ago
Yes most things will also magically disappear when burned
m000 6y ago
Plastic is not biodegradable, which is what is desired from an environmental perspective. But it is photodegradable [1], which results in eventual breakdown to microplastics. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photodegradation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photodegradation
- magicalhippo 6y ago
  However marine plastic can get buried, due to seaweed decomposing into soil. Here's[1] a recent story about some students finding 20% of the soil being plastic on a nearby island. On the surface it looks all nice and clean, but the plastic is embedded beneath the surface. [1]: https://www.nrk.no/trondelag/forskere-fant-opptil-20-prosent-plast-i-jordsmonnet-ved-strender-i-trondelag-1.15177225 https://www.nrk.no/trondelag/forskere-fant-opptil-20-prosent...

DoingIsLearning 6y ago

> Absent links to research papers confirming outlandish claims on plastic bags' environmental safety. This article reads as a petrochem industry mouthpiece. Putting on my tinfoil hat... There were quite a few past posts recently about how plastic is not that economical feasible to recycle, about how the Packaging and Petro-Chemical industry is offloading costs to the 'recycling movement', and about how plastic is creating mass scale health issues with hormonal disruption in both animals and humans. Those posts gained traction because the issue is beyond obvious and the general population is concerned. This likely triggered the alarms in the industry who then payed to slip some "counter-argument" piece into HN. I understand that there is no obvious technological solution and that there is no 'economically' interesting replacement for our society's plastic addiction. Nevertheless, going all 'tobacco industry' on this issue is only going to buy them time. They should put the money from their stealth PR into actual R&D instead, in order to solve this mess.

CodeWriter23 6y ago
> This likely triggered the alarms in the industry who then payed to slip some "counter-argument" piece into HN. Data point: the OP has 98K+ karma and has been a member since 2007. His/her submission history also seems to be mostly informative. Tin foil hat indeed.
- DoingIsLearning 6y ago
  The same submission was actually posted twice before from greener accounts, one was flagged the other ignored. It only broke through (to the second page of HN) with this submission. I am not questioning the authenticity of Alex's submission but if you think old accounts can't be bought or rented, for the reward of being able to shape public opinion, then you are in for a surprise. Any forum, once it becomes big enough and relevant enough to shape public opinion, will eventually be used by lobby/PR people.
  - CodeWriter23 6y ago
    That’s why I noted it as a data point, not a fact. Here’s another data point though, starting with the “Keep America Beautiful” campaign with Iron Eyes Cody in the 70’s, the Petroleum Industry’s PRopaganda position has been to transfer responsibility for the scourge of single-use plastics from their industry to the citizenry. This article, if propped up by Big Oil, would represent a major departure from that position.