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This is an interesting play and a signal that Google wants out of the app store game. Keep in mind Google is supposedly opening up Android to better support th

by radley 6y ago

This is an interesting play and a signal that Google wants out of the app store game. Keep in mind Google is supposedly opening up Android to better support third-party app stores. Essentially, these two changes will motivate major apps like Netflix, Fortnite, Spotify, Tinder, etc to leave the Play Store next year (before the deadline). They may start their own stores (like Epic), but they could also be available as exclusives for a major new, third-party Android app store (probably already in development). In turn, more app devs will jump ship and the Play Store could be a ghost town by the end of 2022.

fendy3002 6y ago
They try to follow Apple's way. If that's the case nothing will prevent google from shipping newest Android with exclusive play store and non installable apk, making it closed environment.
CameronNemo 6y ago
Can you actually have automatic updates for other app stores? Even on 3 year old phones that do not get updates anymore? Because it that is not the case, a lot of users will continue to prefer the Play Store.
- kelnos 6y ago
  The article talks about Google working to make it easier for users to install 3rd-party app stores; I'd hope that allowing automatic updates would be a part of that. Unclear if Google would be able to ninja that in to older phones as a Play Services update. My guess is that they probably couldn't since that's pretty fundamental to the OS's permissions system.
  - kuschku 6y ago
    They could offer a Play Services API that allows app stores to update apps which the user previously installed through them. As Play Services already has an API and the permissions to replace installed apps (although this API is currently only available to the Google Play Store), and as Android already tracks from where an app was installed, this would be easily possible. But knowing Google, they won’t allow this.
- radley 6y ago
  That's a Google / Play Store limitation, not a technical one.
  - CameronNemo 6y ago
    I thought it has to do with how AOSP/ROMs work.
    - radley 6y ago
      "An app downloaded from Google Play may not modify, replace or update its own APK binary code using any method other than Google Play's update mechanism." https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-outlaws-android-app-updates-that-dont-come-from-its-play-store/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-outlaws-android-app-upd...
      - CameronNemo 6y ago
        It is still an OS level restriction too. There is no way to install an application without prompting the user except through "system" app stores currently. To test: you can install a vanilla Lineage OS ROM that does not have Google Play Services/Store, and then install the F-Droid application. F-Droid will not be allowed to install applications unless you (a) allow installing applications from untrusted sources (yeah, you cannot even say that F-Droid is the only trusted source, you just have to open it up all the way) and (b) you manually approve the installation of any APKs (including) updates that are installed via F-Droid.
jariel 6y ago
You'd be surprised at how valuable a position is within Play store. It's like default search: if 'something else comes up, they click it'. Obviously if people can't find Netflix, they're going to think 'whats up' and try to find it, but that comes with hurdles and it won't be good, it will mean lost downloads at some rate.
- radley 6y ago
  I'm familiar - I had a top 15 paid app for a few years. That position drove all of our sales.
srtjstjsj 6y ago
> Keep in mind Google is supposedly opening up Android to better support third-party app stores. What's that now?
- mthoms 6y ago
  This was a surprise to me too, but another user linked to this announcement up thread: https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2020/09/listening-to-developer-feedback-to.html https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2020/09/listening-...
camhart 6y ago
Android 12 with its app store friendly change most likely won't be released until August 2021... so claiming they'll have an alternative store ready before the Sept 2021 deadline (not to mention no app updates starting Jan 2021) is unlikely.
- radley 6y ago
  Epic already has their own store. The real question is how will Netflix and Spotify pivot? Will they turn their apps into some form of store to allow their own payment mechanism? Or will they turn to a third party store? > no app updates starting Jan 2021 What's that? I haven't heard anything about that date.
  - camhart 6y ago
    No one is linking to the actual policy change. See https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answer/9992660 https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answ.... In the email I received today from Google Play it states: "Any existing app that is currently using an alternative billing system in violation of this policy will need to remove it to comply with this update. For these apps, we are offering an extended grace period until September 30, 2021 to make any required changes. New apps submitted after January 20, 2021 will need to be in compliance."
    - radley 6y ago
      Their developer blog goes further: "But for those who already have an app on Google Play that requires technical work to integrate our billing system, we do not want to unduly disrupt their roadmaps and are giving a year (until September 30, 2021) to complete any needed updates." This means Netflix, Spotify, and even Apple have a year to find another solution / store.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]

by radley 6y ago

fendy3002 6y ago

They try to follow Apple's way. If that's the case nothing will prevent google from shipping newest Android with exclusive play store and non installable apk, making it closed environment.

CameronNemo 6y ago

Can you actually have automatic updates for other app stores? Even on 3 year old phones that do not get updates anymore? Because it that is not the case, a lot of users will continue to prefer the Play Store.

kelnos 6y ago
The article talks about Google working to make it easier for users to install 3rd-party app stores; I'd hope that allowing automatic updates would be a part of that. Unclear if Google would be able to ninja that in to older phones as a Play Services update. My guess is that they probably couldn't since that's pretty fundamental to the OS's permissions system.
- kuschku 6y ago
  They could offer a Play Services API that allows app stores to update apps which the user previously installed through them. As Play Services already has an API and the permissions to replace installed apps (although this API is currently only available to the Google Play Store), and as Android already tracks from where an app was installed, this would be easily possible. But knowing Google, they won’t allow this.
radley 6y ago
That's a Google / Play Store limitation, not a technical one.
- CameronNemo 6y ago
  I thought it has to do with how AOSP/ROMs work.
  - radley 6y ago
    "An app downloaded from Google Play may not modify, replace or update its own APK binary code using any method other than Google Play's update mechanism." https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-outlaws-android-app-updates-that-dont-come-from-its-play-store/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-outlaws-android-app-upd...
    - CameronNemo 6y ago
      It is still an OS level restriction too. There is no way to install an application without prompting the user except through "system" app stores currently. To test: you can install a vanilla Lineage OS ROM that does not have Google Play Services/Store, and then install the F-Droid application. F-Droid will not be allowed to install applications unless you (a) allow installing applications from untrusted sources (yeah, you cannot even say that F-Droid is the only trusted source, you just have to open it up all the way) and (b) you manually approve the installation of any APKs (including) updates that are installed via F-Droid.

jariel 6y ago

You'd be surprised at how valuable a position is within Play store. It's like default search: if 'something else comes up, they click it'. Obviously if people can't find Netflix, they're going to think 'whats up' and try to find it, but that comes with hurdles and it won't be good, it will mean lost downloads at some rate.

radley 6y ago
I'm familiar - I had a top 15 paid app for a few years. That position drove all of our sales.

srtjstjsj 6y ago

> Keep in mind Google is supposedly opening up Android to better support third-party app stores. What's that now?

mthoms 6y ago
This was a surprise to me too, but another user linked to this announcement up thread: https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2020/09/listening-to-developer-feedback-to.html https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2020/09/listening-...

camhart 6y ago

Android 12 with its app store friendly change most likely won't be released until August 2021... so claiming they'll have an alternative store ready before the Sept 2021 deadline (not to mention no app updates starting Jan 2021) is unlikely.

radley 6y ago
Epic already has their own store. The real question is how will Netflix and Spotify pivot? Will they turn their apps into some form of store to allow their own payment mechanism? Or will they turn to a third party store? > no app updates starting Jan 2021 What's that? I haven't heard anything about that date.
- camhart 6y ago
  No one is linking to the actual policy change. See https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answer/9992660 https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answ.... In the email I received today from Google Play it states: "Any existing app that is currently using an alternative billing system in violation of this policy will need to remove it to comply with this update. For these apps, we are offering an extended grace period until September 30, 2021 to make any required changes. New apps submitted after January 20, 2021 will need to be in compliance."
  - radley 6y ago
    Their developer blog goes further: "But for those who already have an app on Google Play that requires technical work to integrate our billing system, we do not want to unduly disrupt their roadmaps and are giving a year (until September 30, 2021) to complete any needed updates." This means Netflix, Spotify, and even Apple have a year to find another solution / store.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]