4 ms·

I hear you. I seen worse unfortunately. Especially when founders are not white men (like myself). The way that some of my female founders friends were treated w

by doh 6y ago

I hear you. I seen worse unfortunately. Especially when founders are not white men (like myself). The way that some of my female founders friends were treated was orders of magnitude worse (if that's even possible). One friend wrote about her experience [0]. [0] https://medium.com/sparking-conversation/how-raising-a-2-m-seed-round-really-actually-went-b1c53ff9096a https://medium.com/sparking-conversation/how-raising-a-2-m-s...

langitbiru 6y ago
Don't forget the case of black CEOs mistaken as subordinates. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23540162 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23540162
- doh 6y ago
  That's very disturbing. I never thought I will consider myself lucky after what I went through.
  - vmception 6y ago
    My other response matches what the Bloomberg article in that post is saying: hire a white person for the American market. The comments are saying similar things to what I experience in America, where there is a need to prove unnecessary things, and also no acceptance of mediocrity. Every black person has to be Obama. Whereas I see others are getting the benefit of the doubt. This isn't really news in the black community, people who almost universally realize that their experience is going to be challenged and invalidated with an infinite series of excuses and sometimes plain gaslighting so they just stop talking about it as it falls on deaf ears. About the need to be better by a mythically high standard, JFK said the same thing 60 years ago, so I too am deeply skeptically about people that suddenly want to listen. For how long will they really want to have this conversation this time? For me, the primary validation about America's quirks is my experience outside of America. In other markets, primarily my experience lies in Commonwealth and European markets, I've just been accepted as a competent person taking initiative. Ironically, it is because of my metadata of being American and additionally my existence in Tech / Silicon Valley that helps. But it is a glimpse of the refreshing experience that Ivy League white males seem to describe having the rest of their lives in America. The experience that makes them have an unfaltering marriage to the US infrastructure and stability, which is completely foreign to me, while I retain access to an America that can function as a tool for me to obtain access to capital.
    - doh 6y ago
      I heard this from other friends of color that describe strikingly different experience while visiting or living in Europe. I grew up in Slovakia which as non-diverse as it gets. The country is quite racist, but in a very different way than I seen in US. It's more like "everyone different is bad" than "people x are bad". What I observed in US that the country really takes an advantage of "poor" people (This is not meant to be derogatory. It supposed to mean people without immediate means. I'm not trying to make a statement about how they got to where they are). And because minorities generally are at the bottom of wealth, this tend to fuel the racism even more. I always thought that a strong safety net system would ease the situation and allow for the most vulnerable groups to gain some footing which would be better for everyone. But I found over the years that the system racism is so powerful and so deeply integrated in the society that there is no way they will let it happen. I never figured out any solution to this problem which frustrates me immensely.
      - vmception 6y ago
        Your observations about socioeconomic status echo deeper than you might think. Towards black Americans, European xenophobia doesn't translate into microaggressions intertwined with poverty, like being suspected of stealing while in any shop or being mistaken as working there because that context doesn’t exist. Where that sentiment exists, it seems reserved for another group like Romanians or Romanian minorities. Towards anybody, there is no possibility of the police being called on you while strolling through any random neighborhood and no possibility of that escalating into danger if they were. There is no need to rationalize perpetual danger with “but look at the violent crime stats, LE has to assume everyone that looks like that has a dangerous weapon”, and the lack of collective punishment absolves almost all of the strife. More likely you’ll wind up in a society where everyone ignores each other by default anyway and that’s great, leaving only the endearing things to experience.
        doh 6y ago
        >Towards anybody, there is no possibility of the police being called on you while strolling through any random neighborhood and no possibility of that escalating into danger if they were I attribute this to gun ownership. Police in most of Europe don't worry about anyone caring a gun, so their physical reactions are much less severe. >“but look at the violent crime stats, LE has to assume everyone that looks like that has a dangerous weapon” After Hitler used very detailed census data to single out certain groups, Europe is very sensitive about collecting them. I remember a debate in Slovakia a decade or so ago, where they were talking about guessing a race and people were strongly against it (never passed). >More likely you’ll wind up in a society where everyone ignores each other by default anyway and that’s great, leaving only the endearing things to experience. Interestingly enough, I never felt this way while living in Europe. People are still engaged and quite caring but also keep their distance. Europe is far from perfect, but there are parts I miss greatly.
vmception 6y ago
Right, I personally don't pick that battle. I partner with the “local goyim” to get into the rooms I want in every country I’m in, in the United States that is a white man with an ivy league degree. I don't know if I got the idea from anti-semitic drivel or accurate Jewish business ideas, but I’ve had a lot of success with this approach. If you want to fight for inclusivity, do that with your non-profit or shelve the idea until you have a path of lesser resistance, such as with your cofounder that matches the predispositions of people. I’m not advocating for this to be how the world should work, but dealing with inclusivity in Korea, for example, is going to be distracting business priority when you know the answer is to get a Korean person on your team page and get a white male in the advertisement or interview. It is a mistake to treat America differently and act surprised at the results. Just because some people need to see me write it: I completely understand this is a barrier of entry that does not scale to service a broad population of founders. I’ve had a lot of success with this approach.
- doh 6y ago
  I understand this approach and I bet it works, but there is just something about giving to the zeitgeist is what makes me queasy. I actually was told early on by one of the top VCs to find Stanford grad co-founder and they will invest with no problem. It's just not who I am, regardless how much harder it made it for us (and me of course).
  - vmception 6y ago
    > but there is just something about giving to the zeitgeist is what makes me queasy. I don’t feel like I have the privilege to care about that. Or, I don’t feel like that is compatible with making money and focusing on the project’s mission. Save the inclusivity for the non-profit or your own angel investing in the future.
    - doh 6y ago
      I hear you. This is where my white ass gets the benefits. I hope that I will see a time where it is not considered a privilege for anyone but white folks like me.

by doh 6y ago

langitbiru 6y ago

Don't forget the case of black CEOs mistaken as subordinates. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23540162 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23540162

doh 6y ago
That's very disturbing. I never thought I will consider myself lucky after what I went through.
- vmception 6y ago
  My other response matches what the Bloomberg article in that post is saying: hire a white person for the American market. The comments are saying similar things to what I experience in America, where there is a need to prove unnecessary things, and also no acceptance of mediocrity. Every black person has to be Obama. Whereas I see others are getting the benefit of the doubt. This isn't really news in the black community, people who almost universally realize that their experience is going to be challenged and invalidated with an infinite series of excuses and sometimes plain gaslighting so they just stop talking about it as it falls on deaf ears. About the need to be better by a mythically high standard, JFK said the same thing 60 years ago, so I too am deeply skeptically about people that suddenly want to listen. For how long will they really want to have this conversation this time? For me, the primary validation about America's quirks is my experience outside of America. In other markets, primarily my experience lies in Commonwealth and European markets, I've just been accepted as a competent person taking initiative. Ironically, it is because of my metadata of being American and additionally my existence in Tech / Silicon Valley that helps. But it is a glimpse of the refreshing experience that Ivy League white males seem to describe having the rest of their lives in America. The experience that makes them have an unfaltering marriage to the US infrastructure and stability, which is completely foreign to me, while I retain access to an America that can function as a tool for me to obtain access to capital.
  - doh 6y ago
    I heard this from other friends of color that describe strikingly different experience while visiting or living in Europe. I grew up in Slovakia which as non-diverse as it gets. The country is quite racist, but in a very different way than I seen in US. It's more like "everyone different is bad" than "people x are bad". What I observed in US that the country really takes an advantage of "poor" people (This is not meant to be derogatory. It supposed to mean people without immediate means. I'm not trying to make a statement about how they got to where they are). And because minorities generally are at the bottom of wealth, this tend to fuel the racism even more. I always thought that a strong safety net system would ease the situation and allow for the most vulnerable groups to gain some footing which would be better for everyone. But I found over the years that the system racism is so powerful and so deeply integrated in the society that there is no way they will let it happen. I never figured out any solution to this problem which frustrates me immensely.
    - vmception 6y ago
      Your observations about socioeconomic status echo deeper than you might think. Towards black Americans, European xenophobia doesn't translate into microaggressions intertwined with poverty, like being suspected of stealing while in any shop or being mistaken as working there because that context doesn’t exist. Where that sentiment exists, it seems reserved for another group like Romanians or Romanian minorities. Towards anybody, there is no possibility of the police being called on you while strolling through any random neighborhood and no possibility of that escalating into danger if they were. There is no need to rationalize perpetual danger with “but look at the violent crime stats, LE has to assume everyone that looks like that has a dangerous weapon”, and the lack of collective punishment absolves almost all of the strife. More likely you’ll wind up in a society where everyone ignores each other by default anyway and that’s great, leaving only the endearing things to experience.
      - doh 6y ago
        >Towards anybody, there is no possibility of the police being called on you while strolling through any random neighborhood and no possibility of that escalating into danger if they were I attribute this to gun ownership. Police in most of Europe don't worry about anyone caring a gun, so their physical reactions are much less severe. >“but look at the violent crime stats, LE has to assume everyone that looks like that has a dangerous weapon” After Hitler used very detailed census data to single out certain groups, Europe is very sensitive about collecting them. I remember a debate in Slovakia a decade or so ago, where they were talking about guessing a race and people were strongly against it (never passed). >More likely you’ll wind up in a society where everyone ignores each other by default anyway and that’s great, leaving only the endearing things to experience. Interestingly enough, I never felt this way while living in Europe. People are still engaged and quite caring but also keep their distance. Europe is far from perfect, but there are parts I miss greatly.

vmception 6y ago

Right, I personally don't pick that battle. I partner with the “local goyim” to get into the rooms I want in every country I’m in, in the United States that is a white man with an ivy league degree. I don't know if I got the idea from anti-semitic drivel or accurate Jewish business ideas, but I’ve had a lot of success with this approach. If you want to fight for inclusivity, do that with your non-profit or shelve the idea until you have a path of lesser resistance, such as with your cofounder that matches the predispositions of people. I’m not advocating for this to be how the world should work, but dealing with inclusivity in Korea, for example, is going to be distracting business priority when you know the answer is to get a Korean person on your team page and get a white male in the advertisement or interview. It is a mistake to treat America differently and act surprised at the results. Just because some people need to see me write it: I completely understand this is a barrier of entry that does not scale to service a broad population of founders. I’ve had a lot of success with this approach.

doh 6y ago
I understand this approach and I bet it works, but there is just something about giving to the zeitgeist is what makes me queasy. I actually was told early on by one of the top VCs to find Stanford grad co-founder and they will invest with no problem. It's just not who I am, regardless how much harder it made it for us (and me of course).
- vmception 6y ago
  > but there is just something about giving to the zeitgeist is what makes me queasy. I don’t feel like I have the privilege to care about that. Or, I don’t feel like that is compatible with making money and focusing on the project’s mission. Save the inclusivity for the non-profit or your own angel investing in the future.
  - doh 6y ago
    I hear you. This is where my white ass gets the benefits. I hope that I will see a time where it is not considered a privilege for anyone but white folks like me.