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"Coding" as a subject is emerging with all the requisite teacher training materials, state board approved curricula, etc. It bears about as much resemblance to

"Coding" as a subject is emerging with all the requisite teacher training materials, state board approved curricula, etc. It bears about as much resemblance to actual software engineering or even hobbyist programming as the AP CS exam does ;) The best experience I've had so far is just creating simple games and simulations in Processing (P5JS) with kids. The online IDE is very forgiving. But as of yet, I don't think there is really a set of instructions that allow them to think like a Computer Scientist. In many aspects, 1980s style Turtle Graphics and DOS BASIC were more advanced "mind-openers" https://editor.p5js.org/ https://editor.p5js.org/

watwut 6y ago
The goal is not and should not be too make kid think like engineer. Not in the first step. They first need to start thinking in steps, loops, commands, ifs. Understand it does what you wrote.
- xmprt 6y ago
  I've noticed that a lot of beginners get tripped up on the syntax. Unfortunately a lot of the fun problem solving parts of coding only come after you get over that hurdle. I don't think the visual editors where you drag and drop code blocks work as well but I can't think of a better way to solve the problem.
- ticmasta 6y ago
  >> They first need to start thinking in steps, loops, commands, ifs This is exactly what turtle logo does, with the modest, easily definable, straight-forward goal of drawing cool pictures. I think one of the big mistakes we're making with kids is telling them "you can build awesome video games with almost no work". Well, a video game to my kids is Zelda or Halo. Nobody is building those games over an afternoon in scratch. Coding may be easier, but it's still hard work.
  - jjeaff 6y ago
    Ya, I think that is definitely important. You need to get started with something that can give you quick feedback. I remember one of my first little qbasic programs could output colors on the screen with different tones as it changed. It was probably 10 or 15 lines of code and hitting that key to run the program on a loop was like a little drug high. I was hooked and I could see the endless possibilities of what I could create by just modifying what I already had on screen. Had my first foray into programming been a terminal and a book about C, I most definitely wouldn't have stuck with it.
- snazz 6y ago
  Yeah, but above all it should be fun at that age. It shouldn't be a chore that 90% of the students abhor like math. Students should learn basic concepts, but the primary focus should be to inspire a genuine interest in learning about computers and programming. Some educators take this too far and make kids feel like they're getting a watered-down version. It's a fine line between math-style instruction and gamified block coding.
jjeaff 6y ago
In highschool, I once competed in a statewide computer science competition. I had been coding for a few years by then, but mostly in qbasic and then php and JavaScript. It turned out to be a written test and with the exception of some basics, it was mostly snippets of C code and then multiple choice responses that describe what the code did. Or the reverse where you would select a snippet of code. I remember that I felt like I had guessed on every one of them. In some cases, I was able to make an educated guess by ruling out the obvious. But many times a total guess. I spoke to an older kid after the test and expressed how difficult I thought the test was. He and a few others said they thought it was easy. I ended up winning first place. A university had put on that competition. That experience factored in a bit on my decision to not study computer science in college and go the economics/finance/business route instead. Even though I knew my path was likely tech.

watwut 6y ago

The goal is not and should not be too make kid think like engineer. Not in the first step. They first need to start thinking in steps, loops, commands, ifs. Understand it does what you wrote.

xmprt 6y ago
I've noticed that a lot of beginners get tripped up on the syntax. Unfortunately a lot of the fun problem solving parts of coding only come after you get over that hurdle. I don't think the visual editors where you drag and drop code blocks work as well but I can't think of a better way to solve the problem.
ticmasta 6y ago
>> They first need to start thinking in steps, loops, commands, ifs This is exactly what turtle logo does, with the modest, easily definable, straight-forward goal of drawing cool pictures. I think one of the big mistakes we're making with kids is telling them "you can build awesome video games with almost no work". Well, a video game to my kids is Zelda or Halo. Nobody is building those games over an afternoon in scratch. Coding may be easier, but it's still hard work.
- jjeaff 6y ago
  Ya, I think that is definitely important. You need to get started with something that can give you quick feedback. I remember one of my first little qbasic programs could output colors on the screen with different tones as it changed. It was probably 10 or 15 lines of code and hitting that key to run the program on a loop was like a little drug high. I was hooked and I could see the endless possibilities of what I could create by just modifying what I already had on screen. Had my first foray into programming been a terminal and a book about C, I most definitely wouldn't have stuck with it.
snazz 6y ago
Yeah, but above all it should be fun at that age. It shouldn't be a chore that 90% of the students abhor like math. Students should learn basic concepts, but the primary focus should be to inspire a genuine interest in learning about computers and programming. Some educators take this too far and make kids feel like they're getting a watered-down version. It's a fine line between math-style instruction and gamified block coding.

jjeaff 6y ago

In highschool, I once competed in a statewide computer science competition. I had been coding for a few years by then, but mostly in qbasic and then php and JavaScript. It turned out to be a written test and with the exception of some basics, it was mostly snippets of C code and then multiple choice responses that describe what the code did. Or the reverse where you would select a snippet of code. I remember that I felt like I had guessed on every one of them. In some cases, I was able to make an educated guess by ruling out the obvious. But many times a total guess. I spoke to an older kid after the test and expressed how difficult I thought the test was. He and a few others said they thought it was easy. I ended up winning first place. A university had put on that competition. That experience factored in a bit on my decision to not study computer science in college and go the economics/finance/business route instead. Even though I knew my path was likely tech.