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I wonder if part of the problem of integrating coding classes into schools is that anyone who has the ability to teach coding could probably get a much higher p

I wonder if part of the problem of integrating coding classes into schools is that anyone who has the ability to teach coding could probably get a much higher paying job outside of the school. So the quality of instruction in middle/high school isn't very good. In middle school one of my friends installed the shareware version of Doom onto several computers and the teacher had no idea how to uninstall it. So we were able to play it when she wasn't looking. In high school, my QBasic teacher left half way through the semester to check herself into a mental institution, and the school's follow up course, introduction to C++, was cancelled since only 4 people signed up. There just wasn't good instruction, and I think that led to there being lower interest. However, I only have my own data points to go by.

jimlikeslimes 6y ago
My programming teacher at age 16 directly answered this as a rhetorical question to the class. He just said, I love teaching, I love living here (no tech sector), and I love programming. He found teaching 16-18 year olds programming really rewarding. I found him a realy great teacher. He didn't want the stress of moving to a city and programming for others. That was 20 years ago though. It might be different now.
- dpeck 6y ago
  That was before a good developer who can pass interviews and get a promotion or two could make 3x (easily) to 10x (if a few things went their way) as a teacher. There are some people who love teaching enough to make that trade off, and it’s wonderful that they exist, but they’re going to be exceptionally rare.
  - MiroF 6y ago
    > they’re going to be exceptionally rare. Disagree - at least in my experience in urban school districts, they were definitely the majority of good teachers.
    - ravi-delia 6y ago
      But that's not the question, obviously most good teachers are going to enjoy teaching. It's doubtful that the intersection of good programmers and born lovers of teaching is large, just because most people that want to teach do teach, and people that like to program do program.
  - datenhorst 6y ago
    I'd argue that these salaries allow people to retire early and go into careers that are more rewarding than tech, teaching being one of them
    - xmprt 6y ago
      I'm not sure about that. As a programmer, you have a lot of freedom to program but as a teacher you have very little freedom to just teach. You have to fit to a curriculum and make sure to give a bunch of assignments and tests even if that's not the best way for your students to learn. I love teaching but I don't know if I could ever be a middle/high school teacher.
shinjitsu 6y ago
>I wonder if part of the problem of integrating coding classes into schools is that anyone who has the ability to teach coding could probably get a much higher paying job outside of the school. So the quality of instruction in middle/high school isn't very good. I'm sure some of this is real, but the "programming teacher" in the local town is a former industry developer who moved to teaching after having children so that the work schedule worked for raising children.
watwut 6y ago
Not necessary. Long term coding in team in company is very much unlike what kids learn. And people happy to teach can be unhappy and unsuccessful programmers (due to finding corporate programming unsatisfying and unmotivating)
analog31 6y ago
This is a problem with many subjects, including math and science. Sure, somebody with a math major and teaching certificate might have a hard time getting a job outside of teaching, but had they not pursued the teaching credential, they'd be adequately employable without it. A friend of mine just quit his high school physics teaching gig and now has a nice industry job. And it doesn't take a computer science degree to teach coding, just as it doesn't take one to learn it. My mom taught programming at the high school and college level for several years during the 1980s, and her degree is in chemistry. Two things we don't know how to teach are: Coding and teaching. What I mean is there's no sure fire way to turn more than about 10% of any group into coders or teachers. Even mathematical ability isn't necessarily a good predictor of coding ability. So the good coders and teachers actually come out of the same pool.

jimlikeslimes 6y ago

My programming teacher at age 16 directly answered this as a rhetorical question to the class. He just said, I love teaching, I love living here (no tech sector), and I love programming. He found teaching 16-18 year olds programming really rewarding. I found him a realy great teacher. He didn't want the stress of moving to a city and programming for others. That was 20 years ago though. It might be different now.

dpeck 6y ago
That was before a good developer who can pass interviews and get a promotion or two could make 3x (easily) to 10x (if a few things went their way) as a teacher. There are some people who love teaching enough to make that trade off, and it’s wonderful that they exist, but they’re going to be exceptionally rare.
- MiroF 6y ago
  > they’re going to be exceptionally rare. Disagree - at least in my experience in urban school districts, they were definitely the majority of good teachers.
  - ravi-delia 6y ago
    But that's not the question, obviously most good teachers are going to enjoy teaching. It's doubtful that the intersection of good programmers and born lovers of teaching is large, just because most people that want to teach do teach, and people that like to program do program.
- datenhorst 6y ago
  I'd argue that these salaries allow people to retire early and go into careers that are more rewarding than tech, teaching being one of them
  - xmprt 6y ago
    I'm not sure about that. As a programmer, you have a lot of freedom to program but as a teacher you have very little freedom to just teach. You have to fit to a curriculum and make sure to give a bunch of assignments and tests even if that's not the best way for your students to learn. I love teaching but I don't know if I could ever be a middle/high school teacher.

shinjitsu 6y ago

>I wonder if part of the problem of integrating coding classes into schools is that anyone who has the ability to teach coding could probably get a much higher paying job outside of the school. So the quality of instruction in middle/high school isn't very good. I'm sure some of this is real, but the "programming teacher" in the local town is a former industry developer who moved to teaching after having children so that the work schedule worked for raising children.

watwut 6y ago

Not necessary. Long term coding in team in company is very much unlike what kids learn. And people happy to teach can be unhappy and unsuccessful programmers (due to finding corporate programming unsatisfying and unmotivating)

analog31 6y ago

This is a problem with many subjects, including math and science. Sure, somebody with a math major and teaching certificate might have a hard time getting a job outside of teaching, but had they not pursued the teaching credential, they'd be adequately employable without it. A friend of mine just quit his high school physics teaching gig and now has a nice industry job. And it doesn't take a computer science degree to teach coding, just as it doesn't take one to learn it. My mom taught programming at the high school and college level for several years during the 1980s, and her degree is in chemistry. Two things we don't know how to teach are: Coding and teaching. What I mean is there's no sure fire way to turn more than about 10% of any group into coders or teachers. Even mathematical ability isn't necessarily a good predictor of coding ability. So the good coders and teachers actually come out of the same pool.