5 ms·

> For example they can turn heating in your home on or off as long as the temperature stays within a band defined by you. This is not science fiction, it exists

> For example they can turn heating in your home on or off as long as the temperature stays within a band defined by you. This is not science fiction, it exists today. I know people who use it already. That's how literally every thermostat has worked that I've encountered in my entire life, and I'm close to 30. Yes, this technology already exists. That's why there's no benefit to it: almost everyone already has a thermostat that works like this. The problem is that most people turn the heat on from 7pm to 8am, which is when solar is producing little to no energy.

adrianN 6y ago
No, almost nobody has a thermostat where the power company decides when the heating comes on.
- Manfredo_1 6y ago
  Because that's a terrible idea. what do you expect people to do when there's a cloudy winter day and the power company can't fulfill electricity demand? Freeze? When people are cold they're going to turn on their thermostat. If their thermostat doesn't turn on because the power company shut it off, they're going to use a space heater. Humans' desire to not freeze is a very in-elastic type demand, unlike the time of day they run their dryer.
  - adrianN 6y ago
    I'm apparently not making myself very clear: A proposed way of shifting power demand is giving the power company some measure of control over the temperature in your house, or your hot water boiler, your freezer, the steam in your district heating's pipes, or your aluminium smelter. You define an acceptable band of temperature and the power company can choose to turn heating or cooling on or off, as long as the temperature doesn't fall out of the acceptable range. This allows them to heat up your home when the wind is blowing a little more, and heat your home a little less when the wind is not blowing. This does not solve the problem of windstill, dark winter weeks, where you will want proper energy storage solutions, for example hydrogen or methane that you made during summer. But it does help substantially with reducing peak demand by smearing it out over a longer time frame and thus reduces storage needs. It is in fact such a good idea that it makes sense even with conventional power generation, because even with fossil fuels demand spikes are expensive.
    - Manfredo_1 6y ago
      You're making yourself perfectly clear, you're just wrong about the claim that smart grids will improve heating: * With my normal thermostat I set my home to be heated to 68 degrees Fahrenheit. When it falls below 68 degrees it gets heated. * With a smart thermostat I set my home to be heated to 68 degrees. When it falls below that, it gets heated. There is zero difference between the behavior of a "smart" thermostat and a normal thermostat. Unless the power company gets to turn off your thermostat, or reduce the temperature range below what the user set then there's no way to reduce power consumption by hooking it up to a smart grid. A smart grid works by rearranging the schedule of energy demand. This only works for types of energy demand that can be rearranged, like running your dryer. You can't rearrange the time when your home is heated, unless you want to be cold.
      - adrianN 6y ago
        No you don't understand. The power company can heat your home warmer than 68°F when the electricity is plentiful so that it can wait longer with heating when the electricity is scare.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
        Manfredo_1 6y ago
        Okay, so now I have to pick between dealing with excessive heat during the day, or cold at night because our infrastructure can't fulfill energy demand.
        adrianN 6y ago
        Or you simply put a comfortable range of temperatures in your smart thermostat.
        Manfredo_1 6y ago
        The only way to effectively offset energy demand is with a very large temperature range, which is not a comfortable temperature range. This is largely and unavoidable problem. It's a big part of why Germany mostly heats it's houses with natural gas while France mostly heats with electricity.
- xyzzyz 6y ago
  I long for the future where power company decides whether I'm hot or cold. That truly would be a sign of progress.

adrianN 6y ago

No, almost nobody has a thermostat where the power company decides when the heating comes on.

Manfredo_1 6y ago
Because that's a terrible idea. what do you expect people to do when there's a cloudy winter day and the power company can't fulfill electricity demand? Freeze? When people are cold they're going to turn on their thermostat. If their thermostat doesn't turn on because the power company shut it off, they're going to use a space heater. Humans' desire to not freeze is a very in-elastic type demand, unlike the time of day they run their dryer.
- adrianN 6y ago
  I'm apparently not making myself very clear: A proposed way of shifting power demand is giving the power company some measure of control over the temperature in your house, or your hot water boiler, your freezer, the steam in your district heating's pipes, or your aluminium smelter. You define an acceptable band of temperature and the power company can choose to turn heating or cooling on or off, as long as the temperature doesn't fall out of the acceptable range. This allows them to heat up your home when the wind is blowing a little more, and heat your home a little less when the wind is not blowing. This does not solve the problem of windstill, dark winter weeks, where you will want proper energy storage solutions, for example hydrogen or methane that you made during summer. But it does help substantially with reducing peak demand by smearing it out over a longer time frame and thus reduces storage needs. It is in fact such a good idea that it makes sense even with conventional power generation, because even with fossil fuels demand spikes are expensive.
  - Manfredo_1 6y ago
    You're making yourself perfectly clear, you're just wrong about the claim that smart grids will improve heating: * With my normal thermostat I set my home to be heated to 68 degrees Fahrenheit. When it falls below 68 degrees it gets heated. * With a smart thermostat I set my home to be heated to 68 degrees. When it falls below that, it gets heated. There is zero difference between the behavior of a "smart" thermostat and a normal thermostat. Unless the power company gets to turn off your thermostat, or reduce the temperature range below what the user set then there's no way to reduce power consumption by hooking it up to a smart grid. A smart grid works by rearranging the schedule of energy demand. This only works for types of energy demand that can be rearranged, like running your dryer. You can't rearrange the time when your home is heated, unless you want to be cold.
    - adrianN 6y ago
      No you don't understand. The power company can heat your home warmer than 68°F when the electricity is plentiful so that it can wait longer with heating when the electricity is scare.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - Manfredo_1 6y ago
        Okay, so now I have to pick between dealing with excessive heat during the day, or cold at night because our infrastructure can't fulfill energy demand.
        adrianN 6y ago
        Or you simply put a comfortable range of temperatures in your smart thermostat.
        Manfredo_1 6y ago
        The only way to effectively offset energy demand is with a very large temperature range, which is not a comfortable temperature range. This is largely and unavoidable problem. It's a big part of why Germany mostly heats it's houses with natural gas while France mostly heats with electricity.
xyzzyz 6y ago
I long for the future where power company decides whether I'm hot or cold. That truly would be a sign of progress.