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At least on paper it's optimized for all good things. From the article above: Negative factors: dishonest and fraudulent financial behavior, playing loud musi

At least on paper it's optimized for all good things. From the article above: Negative factors: dishonest and fraudulent financial behavior, playing loud music, violating traffic rules, making reservations at restaurants and not showing up, failing to correctly sort your waste, fraudulently using other people's public transportation ID cards Positive factors, on the other hand, include: donating blood, donating to charity, volunteering to community services But the lack of transparency means that what's promised may be different from what's actually done.

HashingtheCode 6y ago
> At least on paper it's optimized for all good things.... Tell that to Liu Hu. Liu Hu is a journalist in China, writing about censorship and government corruption. Because of his work, Liu has been arrested and fined — and blacklisted. Liu found he was named on a List of Dishonest Persons Subject to Enforcement by the Supreme People's Court as "not qualified" to buy a plane ticket, and banned from travelling some train lines, buying property, or taking out a loan. "There was no file, no police warrant, no official advance notification. They just cut me off from the things I was once entitled to," he told The Globe and Mail. "What's really scary is there's nothing you can do about it. You can report to no one. You are stuck in the middle of nowhere."
- 2a0c40 6y ago
  https://www.aclu.org/issues/national-security/grounded-life-no-fly-list https://www.aclu.org/issues/national-security/grounded-life-...
  - HashingtheCode 6y ago
    Not the same thing as it applies to suspected terrorist only. In contrast anyone can be blacklisted by the SCS for numerous reasons unrelated to terrorism and banned from using ALL forms of public transport.
    - kelnos 6y ago
      Given the opaque nature of the US no-fly list, in practice you can be blacklisted from flying for any -- or no -- reason, and no one is accountable for that choice. If -- and that's a big "if" -- you have the connections required to appeal that decision, the end result is just "oops, sorry, it was an accident", with no consequences to the government for their "error".
    - nl 6y ago
      The key question is "is this subject to judicial oversight such that an ordinary citizen can challenge it" The US is better in that id can be challenged. However, there are significant difficulties with this in practice[1]. This is still better than the situation in China where there is no legal means to challenge it. [1] eg, https://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2019/01/02/no-fly-list-terrorists-government-1078246 https://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2019/01/02/no...
      - HashingtheCode 6y ago
        Apparently with the SCS, if you were to be blacklisted there is possibility to challenge the decision. Liu Hu appealed his decision but is still on the blacklist and has problems due to his low SCS. Another case is listed below: In Xie’s case, he didn’t have time. “No one notified me that I was on the blacklist. Then court officials detained me, so I had to pay the fine,” he said. Xie is now off the blacklist. Lawyer Li Xiaolin was also not given advanced notice that he was blacklisted. In 2014, Li was sued for defamation and lost. A judge ordered Li to make an apology, which he submitted in writing in April 2015. Ten months later, when he was away on a work trip, he was blocked from buying a return flight home to Beijing. That’s when he found out he was blacklisted. It took him another three weeks before an official told him why. “The court said my apology was not sincere. I asked officials how they determined what is sincere.” Li said. Eventually Li wrote a second apology and the court removed him from the blacklist in 2016. Then last year, he tried to get a credit card. “The bank denied my application. I figured out that the bank might still have my name blacklisted and I was right,” Li said. The bank updated its records the next day, but by that point, he had spent almost a year to fully clear his name. “The social credit system gives a very powerful weapon to officials, in a country with very unbalanced relations between citizens and the government,” she said. For now, Liu is still on the blacklist, which the Chinese state media refers to as the list of “laolai” or deadbeats. He is still trying to get off it. https://www.marketplace.org/2018/02/13/social-credit-score-china-blacklisted/ https://www.marketplace.org/2018/02/13/social-credit-score-c...
inamberclad 6y ago
It means nothing. These are all trivial charges that could be brought against you or your family without a second thought. Since the same people that bring the charges control the credit system, it's easy to create any story that's needed to destroy someone's life permanently.
auggierose 6y ago
This is frightening stuff. It would be justified to kill in order to avoid such a system.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
mcguire 6y ago
"Negative factors: dishonest and fraudulent financial behavior, playing loud music, violating traffic rules, making reservations at restaurants and not showing up, failing to correctly sort your waste, fraudulently using other people's public transportation ID cards" Some of these things are not like the others.
- glasslion 6y ago
  Because the author did not really study the so called social credit system, instead they just quote everything from wikipedia without double checking the facts. wiki link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System. That wiki try to associate every thing related to credit in China to the social credit system, which is terribly wrong. For example, playing loud music may get you blacklisted by the beijing subway company, not the national credit system. Violating traffic rules only affects two citie's own credit system, again not the national. "Making reservations at restaurants and not showing up" is from a news hub site.

HashingtheCode 6y ago

> At least on paper it's optimized for all good things.... Tell that to Liu Hu. Liu Hu is a journalist in China, writing about censorship and government corruption. Because of his work, Liu has been arrested and fined — and blacklisted. Liu found he was named on a List of Dishonest Persons Subject to Enforcement by the Supreme People's Court as "not qualified" to buy a plane ticket, and banned from travelling some train lines, buying property, or taking out a loan. "There was no file, no police warrant, no official advance notification. They just cut me off from the things I was once entitled to," he told The Globe and Mail. "What's really scary is there's nothing you can do about it. You can report to no one. You are stuck in the middle of nowhere."

2a0c40 6y ago
https://www.aclu.org/issues/national-security/grounded-life-no-fly-list https://www.aclu.org/issues/national-security/grounded-life-...
- HashingtheCode 6y ago
  Not the same thing as it applies to suspected terrorist only. In contrast anyone can be blacklisted by the SCS for numerous reasons unrelated to terrorism and banned from using ALL forms of public transport.
  - kelnos 6y ago
    Given the opaque nature of the US no-fly list, in practice you can be blacklisted from flying for any -- or no -- reason, and no one is accountable for that choice. If -- and that's a big "if" -- you have the connections required to appeal that decision, the end result is just "oops, sorry, it was an accident", with no consequences to the government for their "error".
  - nl 6y ago
    The key question is "is this subject to judicial oversight such that an ordinary citizen can challenge it" The US is better in that id can be challenged. However, there are significant difficulties with this in practice[1]. This is still better than the situation in China where there is no legal means to challenge it. [1] eg, https://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2019/01/02/no-fly-list-terrorists-government-1078246 https://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2019/01/02/no...
    - HashingtheCode 6y ago
      Apparently with the SCS, if you were to be blacklisted there is possibility to challenge the decision. Liu Hu appealed his decision but is still on the blacklist and has problems due to his low SCS. Another case is listed below: In Xie’s case, he didn’t have time. “No one notified me that I was on the blacklist. Then court officials detained me, so I had to pay the fine,” he said. Xie is now off the blacklist. Lawyer Li Xiaolin was also not given advanced notice that he was blacklisted. In 2014, Li was sued for defamation and lost. A judge ordered Li to make an apology, which he submitted in writing in April 2015. Ten months later, when he was away on a work trip, he was blocked from buying a return flight home to Beijing. That’s when he found out he was blacklisted. It took him another three weeks before an official told him why. “The court said my apology was not sincere. I asked officials how they determined what is sincere.” Li said. Eventually Li wrote a second apology and the court removed him from the blacklist in 2016. Then last year, he tried to get a credit card. “The bank denied my application. I figured out that the bank might still have my name blacklisted and I was right,” Li said. The bank updated its records the next day, but by that point, he had spent almost a year to fully clear his name. “The social credit system gives a very powerful weapon to officials, in a country with very unbalanced relations between citizens and the government,” she said. For now, Liu is still on the blacklist, which the Chinese state media refers to as the list of “laolai” or deadbeats. He is still trying to get off it. https://www.marketplace.org/2018/02/13/social-credit-score-china-blacklisted/ https://www.marketplace.org/2018/02/13/social-credit-score-c...

inamberclad 6y ago

It means nothing. These are all trivial charges that could be brought against you or your family without a second thought. Since the same people that bring the charges control the credit system, it's easy to create any story that's needed to destroy someone's life permanently.

auggierose 6y ago

This is frightening stuff. It would be justified to kill in order to avoid such a system.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

mcguire 6y ago

"Negative factors: dishonest and fraudulent financial behavior, playing loud music, violating traffic rules, making reservations at restaurants and not showing up, failing to correctly sort your waste, fraudulently using other people's public transportation ID cards" Some of these things are not like the others.

glasslion 6y ago
Because the author did not really study the so called social credit system, instead they just quote everything from wikipedia without double checking the facts. wiki link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System. That wiki try to associate every thing related to credit in China to the social credit system, which is terribly wrong. For example, playing loud music may get you blacklisted by the beijing subway company, not the national credit system. Violating traffic rules only affects two citie's own credit system, again not the national. "Making reservations at restaurants and not showing up" is from a news hub site.