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TikTok is not ran or based in the US. I don't get why you think they would be protected under US laws like a US based corporation. Congress and Executive branc

TikTok is not ran or based in the US. I don't get why you think they would be protected under US laws like a US based corporation. Congress and Executive branch can easily ban foreign companies from operating in the US and there is a long history of them doing so.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
whatshisface 6y ago
Some TikTok users are in the US, and taking a service away from them should happen under US law.
- Frost1x 6y ago
  I think the information age has really pushed the limits of what we find acceptable to leave to independent choice in democratic societies. Freedoms in democracy are being abused left-and-right to highlight specific weaknesses fundamental a democracy's healthy function. When it comes to TikTok, frankly I'm not sure if a foreign business under the thumb of the CCP is more or less a threat than businesses operating in our own country abusing the same freedoms for personal gain. You would assume those abusing the system located in the US had a vested interest in stability of the country for continuation of their lofty positions in society, but given broad anti-consumer and labor practices, both foreign and domestic are gutting the foundations of the social contract that make citizens want to believe in and support a democracy. I think the biggest blow we've had in this country is widespread undermining and exploitation of its citizens for personal gain, which have left many unable or in some cases, unwilling, to support the continuation of the system being used against them.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - bad_user 6y ago
    The reverse of that coin is that abuse of freedom is turned into an excuse for restricting freedom. It's the modus operandi of authoritarianism.
  - vin047 6y ago
    > frankly I'm not sure if a foreign business under the thumb of the CCP is more or less a threat than businesses operating in our own country abusing the same freedoms for personal gain. The difference is that a foreign business under the thumb of the CCP is essentially a CCP propagandist, capable of spreading pro-CCP, anti-US propaganda. US business's abusing US citizens are doing so purely for profit. This is bad and needs to be stopped, but IMO is the lesser of immediate concerns. Now of course the US government can (and indeed has) abused its own citizens for political manipulation too, via these tools. But the key difference is that the US government is (at least, in theory, and I agree more needs to be done here...) accountable to US citizens. The CCP is not. The CCP isn't even accountable to its own citizens, both in theory and in practice, which is exactly why many are against the CCP's modus operandi in the first place. > I think the information age has really pushed the limits of what we find acceptable to leave to independent choice in democratic societies. Freedoms in democracy are being abused left-and-right to highlight specific weaknesses fundamental a democracy's healthy function. This is precisely what the US's adversaries want; they want democracy to fail, because its failure strengthens their legitimacy as "the correct way" to govern, to any would-be naysayers.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
- thursday0987 6y ago
  thats not how tariffs work, thats not how international trade works, and it has never worked that way. there is no right to any goods or services provided by a foreign entity. none. prove me wrong by providing a link to a law, treaty, or other official rule that says otherwise. i'll wait.
  - whatshisface 6y ago
    Let's just think practically about what could happen. Suppose the chief executive has a grudge against an individual person. He or she bans them from owning anything produced overseas. Legal or not, I think we can agree that shouldn't be possible.
    - vorpalhex 6y ago
      That has nothing to do with the current case. You violate US law by spying on citizens, you get banned. As a foreign company you don't get a right to a trial. The US Government does not have a relationship with your users - you do. If you get banned, your users have a right to sue you to recoup their costs. The US Government does not owe your users anything. If you get banned from the supermarket for not wearing a mask, the supermarket doesn't owe anything to whoever you were making dinner for.
      - whatshisface 6y ago
        >You violate US law by spying on citizens, you get banned. As a foreign company you don't get a right to a trial. If there's no trial, who is to say that any law was violated?
        vorpalhex 6y ago
        It's literally a requirement of operating in China for the company to share that data with the CCP in full.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- cooljacob204 6y ago
  Why should it? Trading with other nations has never worked like that. No one has a right to a specific social media service, especially a foreign owned one at that.
- bduerst 6y ago
  That goes against the first amendment.
ezconnect 6y ago
They have a US based branch that pay taxes and employs americans. The US branch has US law protection.
publicola1990 6y ago
Either TikTok has right to operate in US or it does not. Is there any letter or terms or conditions of the US law that is prohibiting TikTok from operating? I don't think so. Also it has been allowed to operate for years till now, What sudden change of circumstance has occurred that banning it is imperative now? The government has not made any explanation. Ideal solution in this case would be to define a data security and privacy legislation through Congress applicable to all social networking apps/services and clarify the terms under which they can operate. Then if TikTok is complying with them they can operate and if they are in violation they face necessary consequences. Instead what is happening is arbitrary misuse of executive/administrative powers to promulgate a ban without due process, and based merely on fear and speculation.
- cooljacob204 6y ago
  It's not nearly as back and white as you would appear to like it to be. I do not see any laws being broken or US Citizen rights being trodden on with this ban. They're not even setting a new precedent with this ban. It is completely within the executive branches power to ban a foreign corporation for national security reason, reasons that may not be completely clear to the public. Though I think the reason is very clear, at least their official one. If you are a China based company the CCP by law has access to your data and they have abused access to sensitive and private data time and time again. Just because nothing has happened yet doesn't mean we shouldn't be proactive against China. And I wish Congress would do something about it. The Chinese government deserves so much more then a TikTok ban and Congress could give the ban a more stable foundation then a executive order from a controversial administration.
  - ace_of_spades 6y ago
    As a European I can‘t resist but to say that I wish that we would start banning all of the American internet cooperations that are required by law to share their data with the US government which has time and time again shown that they are willing to abuse access. Remember the time they wanted to wiretap Angela Merkel? Good times! It‘s really astonishing to what extent people are willing to be hypocrites not only but especially in the US... American exceptionalism, what a f*cking joke... Might explain how the Republican party and American establishment could create such a mess of the country. It would be funny if it wasn‘t so damn sad and dangerous for all the other countries and people. /rant
franklampard 6y ago
It sure does

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

whatshisface 6y ago

Some TikTok users are in the US, and taking a service away from them should happen under US law.

Frost1x 6y ago
I think the information age has really pushed the limits of what we find acceptable to leave to independent choice in democratic societies. Freedoms in democracy are being abused left-and-right to highlight specific weaknesses fundamental a democracy's healthy function. When it comes to TikTok, frankly I'm not sure if a foreign business under the thumb of the CCP is more or less a threat than businesses operating in our own country abusing the same freedoms for personal gain. You would assume those abusing the system located in the US had a vested interest in stability of the country for continuation of their lofty positions in society, but given broad anti-consumer and labor practices, both foreign and domestic are gutting the foundations of the social contract that make citizens want to believe in and support a democracy. I think the biggest blow we've had in this country is widespread undermining and exploitation of its citizens for personal gain, which have left many unable or in some cases, unwilling, to support the continuation of the system being used against them.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- bad_user 6y ago
  The reverse of that coin is that abuse of freedom is turned into an excuse for restricting freedom. It's the modus operandi of authoritarianism.
- vin047 6y ago
  > frankly I'm not sure if a foreign business under the thumb of the CCP is more or less a threat than businesses operating in our own country abusing the same freedoms for personal gain. The difference is that a foreign business under the thumb of the CCP is essentially a CCP propagandist, capable of spreading pro-CCP, anti-US propaganda. US business's abusing US citizens are doing so purely for profit. This is bad and needs to be stopped, but IMO is the lesser of immediate concerns. Now of course the US government can (and indeed has) abused its own citizens for political manipulation too, via these tools. But the key difference is that the US government is (at least, in theory, and I agree more needs to be done here...) accountable to US citizens. The CCP is not. The CCP isn't even accountable to its own citizens, both in theory and in practice, which is exactly why many are against the CCP's modus operandi in the first place. > I think the information age has really pushed the limits of what we find acceptable to leave to independent choice in democratic societies. Freedoms in democracy are being abused left-and-right to highlight specific weaknesses fundamental a democracy's healthy function. This is precisely what the US's adversaries want; they want democracy to fail, because its failure strengthens their legitimacy as "the correct way" to govern, to any would-be naysayers.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
thursday0987 6y ago
thats not how tariffs work, thats not how international trade works, and it has never worked that way. there is no right to any goods or services provided by a foreign entity. none. prove me wrong by providing a link to a law, treaty, or other official rule that says otherwise. i'll wait.
- whatshisface 6y ago
  Let's just think practically about what could happen. Suppose the chief executive has a grudge against an individual person. He or she bans them from owning anything produced overseas. Legal or not, I think we can agree that shouldn't be possible.
  - vorpalhex 6y ago
    That has nothing to do with the current case. You violate US law by spying on citizens, you get banned. As a foreign company you don't get a right to a trial. The US Government does not have a relationship with your users - you do. If you get banned, your users have a right to sue you to recoup their costs. The US Government does not owe your users anything. If you get banned from the supermarket for not wearing a mask, the supermarket doesn't owe anything to whoever you were making dinner for.
    - whatshisface 6y ago
      >You violate US law by spying on citizens, you get banned. As a foreign company you don't get a right to a trial. If there's no trial, who is to say that any law was violated?
      - vorpalhex 6y ago
        It's literally a requirement of operating in China for the company to share that data with the CCP in full.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
cooljacob204 6y ago
Why should it? Trading with other nations has never worked like that. No one has a right to a specific social media service, especially a foreign owned one at that.
bduerst 6y ago
That goes against the first amendment.

ezconnect 6y ago

They have a US based branch that pay taxes and employs americans. The US branch has US law protection.

publicola1990 6y ago

Either TikTok has right to operate in US or it does not. Is there any letter or terms or conditions of the US law that is prohibiting TikTok from operating? I don't think so. Also it has been allowed to operate for years till now, What sudden change of circumstance has occurred that banning it is imperative now? The government has not made any explanation. Ideal solution in this case would be to define a data security and privacy legislation through Congress applicable to all social networking apps/services and clarify the terms under which they can operate. Then if TikTok is complying with them they can operate and if they are in violation they face necessary consequences. Instead what is happening is arbitrary misuse of executive/administrative powers to promulgate a ban without due process, and based merely on fear and speculation.

cooljacob204 6y ago
It's not nearly as back and white as you would appear to like it to be. I do not see any laws being broken or US Citizen rights being trodden on with this ban. They're not even setting a new precedent with this ban. It is completely within the executive branches power to ban a foreign corporation for national security reason, reasons that may not be completely clear to the public. Though I think the reason is very clear, at least their official one. If you are a China based company the CCP by law has access to your data and they have abused access to sensitive and private data time and time again. Just because nothing has happened yet doesn't mean we shouldn't be proactive against China. And I wish Congress would do something about it. The Chinese government deserves so much more then a TikTok ban and Congress could give the ban a more stable foundation then a executive order from a controversial administration.
- ace_of_spades 6y ago
  As a European I can‘t resist but to say that I wish that we would start banning all of the American internet cooperations that are required by law to share their data with the US government which has time and time again shown that they are willing to abuse access. Remember the time they wanted to wiretap Angela Merkel? Good times! It‘s really astonishing to what extent people are willing to be hypocrites not only but especially in the US... American exceptionalism, what a f*cking joke... Might explain how the Republican party and American establishment could create such a mess of the country. It would be funny if it wasn‘t so damn sad and dangerous for all the other countries and people. /rant

franklampard 6y ago

It sure does