4 ms·

The trackball thumb module is a great idea - being able to mouse without moving my right hand off the keyboard would be ideal (you can buy an actual mouse to us

The trackball thumb module is a great idea - being able to mouse without moving my right hand off the keyboard would be ideal (you can buy an actual mouse to use for FPS games if you want that). For anyone who is seeing this and thinking they need to upgrade though, know that you really don't have to spend $300 to get a good-quality ergonomic keyboard. The Goldtouch GTN-0099 can be found in like-new condition for $60 on ebay. The Kinesis Freestyle2 is around $100-130. Neither of these have mechanical keyswitches, but I've had a mechanical keyboard before and can tell you the tactile novelty wears off within a couple of weeks. High-quality non-mechanical keyswitches are just dandy these days. So do question whether you really need to plunk down $200 extra for mechanical. Separately, if you care about ergonomics enough to be interested in your keyboard, don't neglect your mouse - usually a much worse culprit for wrist issues. I recently switched from a vertical-style ergonomic mouse to a trackball and it's enough of a difference to make me a zealot! I bought the Kensington vertical model with a thumb trackball. My small remaining wrist issues are no more.

scribu 6y ago
I own a Kinesis Freestyle2. It's collecting dust because I've found the keyboard layout suboptimal. My thumbs would awkwardly reach inwards for the modifier keys.
- chrisBob 6y ago
  Are you a Mac user? Apple keyboards seem to have a different layout where the command key is lined up with the gap between X|C. Being a half key off took me a little getting used to.
Ndymium 6y ago
Regarding mouse usage, the UHK has a mouse keys layer by default and personally I have stopped using a mouse entirely. I did not especially try to drop my mouse, but over time I noticed I didn't reach for it anymore. I can now use the mouse keys for everything, though I don't do any drawing on the computer regularly and I have a mouse for gaming. In fact I don't know if I'll make much use of the trackpoint module when it arrives, but let's see. :)
- egypturnash 6y ago
  If you drew regularly you'd have a drawing tablet and a stylus, anyway. Mice are not good for that. (I am an artist and my Wacom drawing tablet has almost completely replaced a mouse for me, the only time I plug one in is when I want to play a game that requires me to move its view by pushing the mouse cursor against the screen's edge.)
pnutjam 6y ago
Especially for routine computer use, I just swap my mouse to the other side of the keyboard and use my non-dominant hand. It takes a bit of getting used to, but I can mouse with either hand pretty seamlessly unless I'm gaming. It really helps with wrist issues. I also prefer a split keyboard.
michaelbuckbee 6y ago
I have a Magic Trackpad that is in a slightly angled iPhone holder so it "hovers" just in front and slightly over my keyboard. I can get to it without my hands leaving the keyboard (and in general the taps and glides of the trackpad are much better for my RSI).
- uxamanda 6y ago
  Do you have a photo of this? Been thinking about a similar idea, but haven’t purchased a Magic Trackpad to try it yet. I am curious how the phone holder is angled.
schwartzworld 6y ago
Trackballs are the best. I splurged on a Kensington Expert and I really love it. the ball is the size of a billiards ball.
- simias 6y ago
  I also like trackballs although I prefer Logitech's trackman thumb trackball. I also gave the Kensinton Expert a try but I really disliked it. For one I think I just prefer thumb trackballs, but beyond that I found the build quality really shoddy for that price. In particular the scroll ring is wobbly and rattles quite a lot on my model, it feels very cheap and is unpleasant to use.
  - schwartzworld 6y ago
    You should have returned it. I haven't had that experience with mine at all
- sixonesixo 6y ago
  i really love the elecom huge, due to the fact that it has a lot of customizable buttons. the only downside is the scroll wheel that is not the best in the business and the position is unconfortable at first. but the trackballs for a long period usage are far superior in my opinion
barumi 6y ago
> (...) I've had a mechanical keyboard before and can tell you the tactile novelty wears off within a couple of weeks. I'm not sure I follow your reasoning. As a mechanical keyboard user, "the tactical novelty" doesn't even register in the "pros" column. As a professional software developer I use mechanical keyboards because they are far easier to clean and maintain, and are actually repairable and don't become trash just because a key happens to crap out.
- ahelwer 6y ago
  Tactile, not tactical. Mechanical keyboard users I've known all became obsessed with them and never stayed with the same model for long, rendering their longevity irrelevant.
  - elipsey 6y ago
    For _tactical_ use, I rely on my trusty model M, with metal base plate. For home defense, it is without equal. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ The rest of time I greatly prefer the ergonomics of the old thinkpad keyboards w/ track-point, but the external ones are expensive and sucky, imo. I also sometimes move my mouse to the left side of the keyboard so that I can have better, more symmetrical posture. I would really prefer to have a small external USB trackpoint that I could simply place beneath my spacebar, but sadly no one seems to sell this. This person even hacked their own (https://github.com/feklee/usb-trackpoint https://github.com/feklee/usb-trackpoint), but I haven't found the time or motivation. I bet I'm not the only one who would pay a handsome margin -- business opportunity? That UHK pointer module would solve my ergonomic problems better than mousing backwards, and might be worth the price by itself.
  - barumi 6y ago
    > Tactile, not tactical. Potato, topato. > Mechanical keyboard users I've known It's your own personal anectode and all. If you see plenty of people using the same el cheapo keyboard until it breaks apart from all the encusted breadcrumbs and hair and dust and microecosystems, I don't see what's hard to understand about how people who spend more on keyboards also do the same.
atoav 6y ago
I see it like this: if there is anything you use more than a an hour a day, get a thing that feels good, is functional and makes you happy. Just like different guitars play differently, just like different shoes feel differently, different keyboards feel differently too. If you are fine with a non-mechanical one, no need to defend yourself. Some people like clicky mechanical keyboards, some like linear ones, some want a heavy touch, some a light touch, some don't feel any difference at all, etc. A good keyboard will last you at least a decade, multiply these hours by that and even 200$ would be nearly next to nothing given the time you use it. Do you really need it? Probably not (unless you use it for ergonomics). But if you can afford it, why not.
- ahelwer 6y ago
  People talk a big game about how durable these pricy mechanical keyboard are, how they can be repaired and last forever, etc. I don't think it works out that way. Looking through these comments you can see people with the Ergodox EZ asking whether they should "upgrade" to something slightly newer. Once you start chasing keyboarding perfection, the journey is endless. Minutae loom large; you're never quite satisfied. It's best to just buy something reasonable and learn to like it for what it is. I will say the Kinesis Advantage2 people seem to be more or less permanently satisfied, though. So I am tempted.
  - XenophileJKO 6y ago
    Yep.. I bought a second hand Kinesis Advantage off ebay to "see if this would work for me". I used that one for almost 10 years and it was old when I got it. I had to use a usb adapter plugged into a ps/2 adapter into the original AT keyboard plug. Currently I have an advantage pro. Thinking about getting an advantage 2, but would only to get upgraded function keys.
  - WordSkill 6y ago
    After 3 years, I heartily recommend the Advantage2. Using it is simply more fun. I use mine with a trackpad sitting in the space between the two wells. Creating those wells is, apparently, a tough engineering challenge, which is why so few commercially available keyboards have them, but they are what makes it so comfortable and effective. I consider the flat split keyboards to be pointless.

scribu 6y ago

I own a Kinesis Freestyle2. It's collecting dust because I've found the keyboard layout suboptimal. My thumbs would awkwardly reach inwards for the modifier keys.

chrisBob 6y ago
Are you a Mac user? Apple keyboards seem to have a different layout where the command key is lined up with the gap between X|C. Being a half key off took me a little getting used to.

Ndymium 6y ago

Regarding mouse usage, the UHK has a mouse keys layer by default and personally I have stopped using a mouse entirely. I did not especially try to drop my mouse, but over time I noticed I didn't reach for it anymore. I can now use the mouse keys for everything, though I don't do any drawing on the computer regularly and I have a mouse for gaming. In fact I don't know if I'll make much use of the trackpoint module when it arrives, but let's see. :)

egypturnash 6y ago
If you drew regularly you'd have a drawing tablet and a stylus, anyway. Mice are not good for that. (I am an artist and my Wacom drawing tablet has almost completely replaced a mouse for me, the only time I plug one in is when I want to play a game that requires me to move its view by pushing the mouse cursor against the screen's edge.)

pnutjam 6y ago

Especially for routine computer use, I just swap my mouse to the other side of the keyboard and use my non-dominant hand. It takes a bit of getting used to, but I can mouse with either hand pretty seamlessly unless I'm gaming. It really helps with wrist issues. I also prefer a split keyboard.

michaelbuckbee 6y ago

I have a Magic Trackpad that is in a slightly angled iPhone holder so it "hovers" just in front and slightly over my keyboard. I can get to it without my hands leaving the keyboard (and in general the taps and glides of the trackpad are much better for my RSI).

uxamanda 6y ago
Do you have a photo of this? Been thinking about a similar idea, but haven’t purchased a Magic Trackpad to try it yet. I am curious how the phone holder is angled.

schwartzworld 6y ago

Trackballs are the best. I splurged on a Kensington Expert and I really love it. the ball is the size of a billiards ball.

simias 6y ago
I also like trackballs although I prefer Logitech's trackman thumb trackball. I also gave the Kensinton Expert a try but I really disliked it. For one I think I just prefer thumb trackballs, but beyond that I found the build quality really shoddy for that price. In particular the scroll ring is wobbly and rattles quite a lot on my model, it feels very cheap and is unpleasant to use.
- schwartzworld 6y ago
  You should have returned it. I haven't had that experience with mine at all
sixonesixo 6y ago
i really love the elecom huge, due to the fact that it has a lot of customizable buttons. the only downside is the scroll wheel that is not the best in the business and the position is unconfortable at first. but the trackballs for a long period usage are far superior in my opinion

barumi 6y ago

> (...) I've had a mechanical keyboard before and can tell you the tactile novelty wears off within a couple of weeks. I'm not sure I follow your reasoning. As a mechanical keyboard user, "the tactical novelty" doesn't even register in the "pros" column. As a professional software developer I use mechanical keyboards because they are far easier to clean and maintain, and are actually repairable and don't become trash just because a key happens to crap out.

ahelwer 6y ago
Tactile, not tactical. Mechanical keyboard users I've known all became obsessed with them and never stayed with the same model for long, rendering their longevity irrelevant.
- elipsey 6y ago
  For _tactical_ use, I rely on my trusty model M, with metal base plate. For home defense, it is without equal. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ The rest of time I greatly prefer the ergonomics of the old thinkpad keyboards w/ track-point, but the external ones are expensive and sucky, imo. I also sometimes move my mouse to the left side of the keyboard so that I can have better, more symmetrical posture. I would really prefer to have a small external USB trackpoint that I could simply place beneath my spacebar, but sadly no one seems to sell this. This person even hacked their own (https://github.com/feklee/usb-trackpoint https://github.com/feklee/usb-trackpoint), but I haven't found the time or motivation. I bet I'm not the only one who would pay a handsome margin -- business opportunity? That UHK pointer module would solve my ergonomic problems better than mousing backwards, and might be worth the price by itself.
- barumi 6y ago
  > Tactile, not tactical. Potato, topato. > Mechanical keyboard users I've known It's your own personal anectode and all. If you see plenty of people using the same el cheapo keyboard until it breaks apart from all the encusted breadcrumbs and hair and dust and microecosystems, I don't see what's hard to understand about how people who spend more on keyboards also do the same.

atoav 6y ago

I see it like this: if there is anything you use more than a an hour a day, get a thing that feels good, is functional and makes you happy. Just like different guitars play differently, just like different shoes feel differently, different keyboards feel differently too. If you are fine with a non-mechanical one, no need to defend yourself. Some people like clicky mechanical keyboards, some like linear ones, some want a heavy touch, some a light touch, some don't feel any difference at all, etc. A good keyboard will last you at least a decade, multiply these hours by that and even 200$ would be nearly next to nothing given the time you use it. Do you really need it? Probably not (unless you use it for ergonomics). But if you can afford it, why not.

ahelwer 6y ago
People talk a big game about how durable these pricy mechanical keyboard are, how they can be repaired and last forever, etc. I don't think it works out that way. Looking through these comments you can see people with the Ergodox EZ asking whether they should "upgrade" to something slightly newer. Once you start chasing keyboarding perfection, the journey is endless. Minutae loom large; you're never quite satisfied. It's best to just buy something reasonable and learn to like it for what it is. I will say the Kinesis Advantage2 people seem to be more or less permanently satisfied, though. So I am tempted.
- XenophileJKO 6y ago
  Yep.. I bought a second hand Kinesis Advantage off ebay to "see if this would work for me". I used that one for almost 10 years and it was old when I got it. I had to use a usb adapter plugged into a ps/2 adapter into the original AT keyboard plug. Currently I have an advantage pro. Thinking about getting an advantage 2, but would only to get upgraded function keys.
- WordSkill 6y ago
  After 3 years, I heartily recommend the Advantage2. Using it is simply more fun. I use mine with a trackpad sitting in the space between the two wells. Creating those wells is, apparently, a tough engineering challenge, which is why so few commercially available keyboards have them, but they are what makes it so comfortable and effective. I consider the flat split keyboards to be pointless.