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You use the word "smart grid" as though it just automatically makes electricity usage go down. A smart grid works by redistributing load to when there is power.

You use the word "smart grid" as though it just automatically makes electricity usage go down. A smart grid works by redistributing load to when there is power. A smart grid almost always needs storage, unless it's doing simple things like running your dryer where it's just a matter of turning on your appliances at a certain time of day. If you're at he from 7pm to 8am, and you want your home to be heated while you're there a smart grid isn't going to help you. A smart grid would tell to to be at home at different hours of the day, but people aren't appliances. And again, car batteries being used or not, we wouldn't have enough battery storage fulfill the storage requirements for decades or even centuries, and by then the first batteries we built will have long since worn out.

adrianN 6y ago
I use "smart grid" to mean that the electricity provider has a measure of control over the load. For example they can turn heating in your home on or off as long as the temperature stays within a band defined by you. This is not science fiction, it exists today. I know people who use it already.
- bosie 6y ago
  How much can the provider shave off the load though? if i set my band between 21 and 23 degrees, is the reduction more than a few percent max? Doesn't seem to make a dent given the peak requirement when the majority of the people all shift locations (i.e. go home)?
  - adrianN 6y ago
    This paper [1] says up to 8GW in Germany with full integration of heating, cooling and mobility. [1] https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0306261915001889 https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S03062619150018...
    - bosie 6y ago
      Found the paper but couldn't find the 8GW claim. Doesn't that seem very little considering germany is producing electricity in the 500 TWh region?
      - adrianN 6y ago
        The 8GW are in the abstract. 500TWh per year are about 60GW average. 8GW is quite a bit compared to that, but of course load shifting alone won't allow you get to 100% renewables.
        bosie 6y ago
        Dang, i was reading the wrong paper. sorry.
- Manfredo_1 6y ago
  > For example they can turn heating in your home on or off as long as the temperature stays within a band defined by you. This is not science fiction, it exists today. I know people who use it already. That's how literally every thermostat has worked that I've encountered in my entire life, and I'm close to 30. Yes, this technology already exists. That's why there's no benefit to it: almost everyone already has a thermostat that works like this. The problem is that most people turn the heat on from 7pm to 8am, which is when solar is producing little to no energy.
  - adrianN 6y ago
    No, almost nobody has a thermostat where the power company decides when the heating comes on.
    - Manfredo_1 6y ago
      Because that's a terrible idea. what do you expect people to do when there's a cloudy winter day and the power company can't fulfill electricity demand? Freeze? When people are cold they're going to turn on their thermostat. If their thermostat doesn't turn on because the power company shut it off, they're going to use a space heater. Humans' desire to not freeze is a very in-elastic type demand, unlike the time of day they run their dryer.
      - adrianN 6y ago
        I'm apparently not making myself very clear: A proposed way of shifting power demand is giving the power company some measure of control over the temperature in your house, or your hot water boiler, your freezer, the steam in your district heating's pipes, or your aluminium smelter. You define an acceptable band of temperature and the power company can choose to turn heating or cooling on or off, as long as the temperature doesn't fall out of the acceptable range. This allows them to heat up your home when the wind is blowing a little more, and heat your home a little less when the wind is not blowing. This does not solve the problem of windstill, dark winter weeks, where you will want proper energy storage solutions, for example hydrogen or methane that you made during summer. But it does help substantially with reducing peak demand by smearing it out over a longer time frame and thus reduces storage needs. It is in fact such a good idea that it makes sense even with conventional power generation, because even with fossil fuels demand spikes are expensive.

adrianN 6y ago

I use "smart grid" to mean that the electricity provider has a measure of control over the load. For example they can turn heating in your home on or off as long as the temperature stays within a band defined by you. This is not science fiction, it exists today. I know people who use it already.

bosie 6y ago
How much can the provider shave off the load though? if i set my band between 21 and 23 degrees, is the reduction more than a few percent max? Doesn't seem to make a dent given the peak requirement when the majority of the people all shift locations (i.e. go home)?
- adrianN 6y ago
  This paper [1] says up to 8GW in Germany with full integration of heating, cooling and mobility. [1] https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0306261915001889 https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S03062619150018...
  - bosie 6y ago
    Found the paper but couldn't find the 8GW claim. Doesn't that seem very little considering germany is producing electricity in the 500 TWh region?
    - adrianN 6y ago
      The 8GW are in the abstract. 500TWh per year are about 60GW average. 8GW is quite a bit compared to that, but of course load shifting alone won't allow you get to 100% renewables.
      - bosie 6y ago
        Dang, i was reading the wrong paper. sorry.
Manfredo_1 6y ago
> For example they can turn heating in your home on or off as long as the temperature stays within a band defined by you. This is not science fiction, it exists today. I know people who use it already. That's how literally every thermostat has worked that I've encountered in my entire life, and I'm close to 30. Yes, this technology already exists. That's why there's no benefit to it: almost everyone already has a thermostat that works like this. The problem is that most people turn the heat on from 7pm to 8am, which is when solar is producing little to no energy.
- adrianN 6y ago
  No, almost nobody has a thermostat where the power company decides when the heating comes on.
  - Manfredo_1 6y ago
    Because that's a terrible idea. what do you expect people to do when there's a cloudy winter day and the power company can't fulfill electricity demand? Freeze? When people are cold they're going to turn on their thermostat. If their thermostat doesn't turn on because the power company shut it off, they're going to use a space heater. Humans' desire to not freeze is a very in-elastic type demand, unlike the time of day they run their dryer.
    - adrianN 6y ago
      I'm apparently not making myself very clear: A proposed way of shifting power demand is giving the power company some measure of control over the temperature in your house, or your hot water boiler, your freezer, the steam in your district heating's pipes, or your aluminium smelter. You define an acceptable band of temperature and the power company can choose to turn heating or cooling on or off, as long as the temperature doesn't fall out of the acceptable range. This allows them to heat up your home when the wind is blowing a little more, and heat your home a little less when the wind is not blowing. This does not solve the problem of windstill, dark winter weeks, where you will want proper energy storage solutions, for example hydrogen or methane that you made during summer. But it does help substantially with reducing peak demand by smearing it out over a longer time frame and thus reduces storage needs. It is in fact such a good idea that it makes sense even with conventional power generation, because even with fossil fuels demand spikes are expensive.