4 ms·

I dont understand how this could be a viable strategy -- unless your job is entirely useless, the business must replace your position during your absence in ord

by setr 6y ago

I dont understand how this could be a viable strategy -- unless your job is entirely useless, the business must replace your position during your absence in order to continue normal operation; even thirty days absence should disrupt things, if an alternative isn't found.. So then what exactly do you return to? It can't be your old position exactly -- you were replaced. So its more like a vague promise that the business will rehire you into some arbitrary position? Or even worse, make up a new position of equivalent power upon your return?

jahaja 6y ago
Since it's normal, companies adapt and it isn't really an issue at all. I've never seen anyone in my jobs (IT) that have been "replaced" in any way shape or form.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
lagerstedt 6y ago
First of all, if a company fires someone because they are on parental leave, that's a lawsuit waiting to happen. Now how a company handles employees depends. In some cases you hire a temp, in others your colleagues covers your responsibilities. I work as a developer and in the places I've worked it has never been a problem. You leave and while you're gone your responsibilities are shared by other colleagues. When you're back you resume your old position. It's true that you might not get back to doing exactly the same work as before you left, but in my experience that's rarely a problem. In my case it's been quite the opposite and an opportunity to take on new things. I think this is quite common It's true that the employer overall needs to keep more staff around since some percentage will be away on parental leave and your need to cover those fluctuations. For small companies this can be a problem but in general I think this system has great acceptance with the public.
pi-rat 6y ago
I think it's quite healthy for the business TBH. In Scandinavia this is the norm, at a medium sized company there will probably always be someone on parental leave at any given time. You expect it, and therefor deal with it by reducing the bus factor up front.
ekvilibrist 6y ago
> I dont understand how this could be a viable strategy -- unless your job is entirely useless, the business must replace your position during your absence in order to continue normal operation Just because you cannot get fired for going on parental leave does not mean that the company cannot hire a substitute for your absence. This is typically what happens.
burntoutfire 6y ago
The business just can function at a diminished capacity. E.g. the team which had 5 developers now has 4. If you're in a more singular position (manager etc.), then the entire's department workload can be rearranged so that your work falls onto one or multiple of your colleagues while you're gone. Since apparently most bigger orgs are in constant flux, it's not hard to do. Also, since it's the norm that people disappear for long periods of time, businesses can hire with some slack (e.g. hire 110% of needed capacity) to easily absorb absences.
black_knight 6y ago
This is really not a big problem. Most places can hire a substitute for that time. And everything is planed months ahead (pregnancy is 9 months). Also, by your argument it is not viable to hire women of fertile age. Which, in Sweden at least, is really out of touch with reality.
DavidVoid 6y ago
DICE recently published three interviews with dads who are going on extended parental leave (one for 5 months and two for 7 months) [1,2,3]. They are all producers but I think their experiences are somewhat indicative of the work culture in many Swedish (tech) companies. The following excerpt is from [3]: There are parts of my surrounding family that expressed their concerns, “if you go away, your career is going to suffer”. I’ll be honest and say that I also had similar concerns the first time I went away. And when I returned, I came back to a slightly different role. That sent up a flag for me. The team had been restructured and I was now asked to support a leader as opposed to be a leader - like I was before I left. I was to support Lars Gustavsson, our Creative Director and the famous Mr. Battlefield. So while I was no longer THE lead, I was still in the leadership group plus I was now learning from a seasoned pro. So it worked out and ultimately I feel my career was not negatively impacted in any significant way. For this parental leave I worked with my manager Adam Clark (Head of Production) to establish a departure plan which started in Summer 2019. We planned which areas I would work on, and we created a rough initial plan for the transition period. We spent the remainder of the year fulfilling that plan at quarterly intervals. The result of this early planning is that my role will be covered in full while I am away. My lead position will be covered by another Producer who has worked with me for the past quarter, being onboarded regarding all crucial functions. This type of commitment to planning gives me confidence to go on leave, knowing I will come back to a similar well planned roadmap in 2021. Additionally a number of my colleagues have been transparent on what they want me to do when I return. Both Ryan McArther (Sr Producer) and Andreas Morell (Sr Producer.) have had sit downs with me and detailed the role they want me to take upon my return. That again, gives me confidence to leave and enjoy my time away. [1] https://www.dice.se/news-articles/life-at-dice-why-3-dads-are-going-on-extended-parental-leave-craig-mcleod https://www.dice.se/news-articles/life-at-dice-why-3-dads-ar... [2] https://www.dice.se/news-articles/life-at-dice-why-3-dads-are-going-on-extended-parental-leave-mattias-hansson https://www.dice.se/news-articles/life-at-dice-why-3-dads-ar... [3] https://www.dice.se/news-articles/life-at-dice-why-3-dads-are-going-on-extended-parental-leave-amo-mostofi https://www.dice.se/news-articles/life-at-dice-why-3-dads-ar...
timidiceball 6y ago
An under-reported pattern I see in larger Norwegian organizations: - Someone leaves for 8 months of maternity leave - Org hires a replacement with determined-end contract - Org loves this new person - New person also enjoyed their time in this position, made new contacts and learned new skills which they can leverage elsewhere - Org also now knows who to contact immediately when there is another opening or new full-time position A growing company or government office can absolutely benefit from the "overhead" of such extensive parental leave, it's just subtle.
alkonaut 6y ago
> So then what exactly do you return to You can't know. It's supposed to be whatever I did before, or equivalent. Basically if they replace me I can make a fuss about wanting my position back or an equivalent position. In any case, you can't e.g. be at a worse pay grade even if you have a lower "position" than before. I have never seen it be a problem. > even thirty days absence should disrupt things, if an alternative isn't found.. We do 5 or 6 weeks holiday every year without problem, not sure why that would be such a big issue. Actually since I had kids I distribute out my remaining parental leave days to a couple of weeks per summer, so from ages 0-8 my summer holidays have been 7 or 8 weeks every year. No manager would even ask a question about this. > So its more like a vague promise Well it's the law... But most importantly so long as people want to take paternal leave, I think even the promise of being rehired is good enough. The key to the system working is that everyone does it. I wouldn't want to work for a manager that hadn't.
ajuc 6y ago
What do you do when somebody goes on vacations or gets a broken leg? Stop the business :)? Here people have 26 days of paid leave + 1 year of combined paternity+maternity leave per kid + paid health leave whenever a doctor decides it's needed. Businesses work just fine - they simply hire more people to offset the fact that everybody is expected to be out of office X% of the time. Also there are temporary contracts and B2B contracts if needed (less protection but also less taxes so they are quite popular with IT people).
romanoderoma 6y ago
> I dont understand how this could be a viable strategy That's one of those miracles that happen when people pay the right amount of taxes! It's incredible what social democracy can do for you if you stop fighting it in the name of the war to socialism! Isn't it? Personally I don't understand how is it viable to have a society where the GDP is astronomical and people have to spend their own money to pay insurance companies that make billions in profits, while women have no right to a fully paid maternal leave. Unless in those countries people are considered like cogs in the machine... > So its more like a vague promise You can' t be fired. It's by law.
peterjussi 6y ago
Companies just plan for redundancy in roles so they are ready when people need to take parental leave or sabbaticals. It isn't that difficult for a company to handle, but companies in countries where this isn't the norm just plan and hire for it.

by setr 6y ago

jahaja 6y ago

Since it's normal, companies adapt and it isn't really an issue at all. I've never seen anyone in my jobs (IT) that have been "replaced" in any way shape or form.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

lagerstedt 6y ago

First of all, if a company fires someone because they are on parental leave, that's a lawsuit waiting to happen. Now how a company handles employees depends. In some cases you hire a temp, in others your colleagues covers your responsibilities. I work as a developer and in the places I've worked it has never been a problem. You leave and while you're gone your responsibilities are shared by other colleagues. When you're back you resume your old position. It's true that you might not get back to doing exactly the same work as before you left, but in my experience that's rarely a problem. In my case it's been quite the opposite and an opportunity to take on new things. I think this is quite common It's true that the employer overall needs to keep more staff around since some percentage will be away on parental leave and your need to cover those fluctuations. For small companies this can be a problem but in general I think this system has great acceptance with the public.

pi-rat 6y ago

I think it's quite healthy for the business TBH. In Scandinavia this is the norm, at a medium sized company there will probably always be someone on parental leave at any given time. You expect it, and therefor deal with it by reducing the bus factor up front.

ekvilibrist 6y ago

> I dont understand how this could be a viable strategy -- unless your job is entirely useless, the business must replace your position during your absence in order to continue normal operation Just because you cannot get fired for going on parental leave does not mean that the company cannot hire a substitute for your absence. This is typically what happens.

burntoutfire 6y ago

The business just can function at a diminished capacity. E.g. the team which had 5 developers now has 4. If you're in a more singular position (manager etc.), then the entire's department workload can be rearranged so that your work falls onto one or multiple of your colleagues while you're gone. Since apparently most bigger orgs are in constant flux, it's not hard to do. Also, since it's the norm that people disappear for long periods of time, businesses can hire with some slack (e.g. hire 110% of needed capacity) to easily absorb absences.

black_knight 6y ago

This is really not a big problem. Most places can hire a substitute for that time. And everything is planed months ahead (pregnancy is 9 months). Also, by your argument it is not viable to hire women of fertile age. Which, in Sweden at least, is really out of touch with reality.

DavidVoid 6y ago

DICE recently published three interviews with dads who are going on extended parental leave (one for 5 months and two for 7 months) [1,2,3]. They are all producers but I think their experiences are somewhat indicative of the work culture in many Swedish (tech) companies. The following excerpt is from [3]: There are parts of my surrounding family that expressed their concerns, “if you go away, your career is going to suffer”. I’ll be honest and say that I also had similar concerns the first time I went away. And when I returned, I came back to a slightly different role. That sent up a flag for me. The team had been restructured and I was now asked to support a leader as opposed to be a leader - like I was before I left. I was to support Lars Gustavsson, our Creative Director and the famous Mr. Battlefield. So while I was no longer THE lead, I was still in the leadership group plus I was now learning from a seasoned pro. So it worked out and ultimately I feel my career was not negatively impacted in any significant way. For this parental leave I worked with my manager Adam Clark (Head of Production) to establish a departure plan which started in Summer 2019. We planned which areas I would work on, and we created a rough initial plan for the transition period. We spent the remainder of the year fulfilling that plan at quarterly intervals. The result of this early planning is that my role will be covered in full while I am away. My lead position will be covered by another Producer who has worked with me for the past quarter, being onboarded regarding all crucial functions. This type of commitment to planning gives me confidence to go on leave, knowing I will come back to a similar well planned roadmap in 2021. Additionally a number of my colleagues have been transparent on what they want me to do when I return. Both Ryan McArther (Sr Producer) and Andreas Morell (Sr Producer.) have had sit downs with me and detailed the role they want me to take upon my return. That again, gives me confidence to leave and enjoy my time away. [1] https://www.dice.se/news-articles/life-at-dice-why-3-dads-are-going-on-extended-parental-leave-craig-mcleod https://www.dice.se/news-articles/life-at-dice-why-3-dads-ar... [2] https://www.dice.se/news-articles/life-at-dice-why-3-dads-are-going-on-extended-parental-leave-mattias-hansson https://www.dice.se/news-articles/life-at-dice-why-3-dads-ar... [3] https://www.dice.se/news-articles/life-at-dice-why-3-dads-are-going-on-extended-parental-leave-amo-mostofi https://www.dice.se/news-articles/life-at-dice-why-3-dads-ar...

timidiceball 6y ago

An under-reported pattern I see in larger Norwegian organizations: - Someone leaves for 8 months of maternity leave - Org hires a replacement with determined-end contract - Org loves this new person - New person also enjoyed their time in this position, made new contacts and learned new skills which they can leverage elsewhere - Org also now knows who to contact immediately when there is another opening or new full-time position A growing company or government office can absolutely benefit from the "overhead" of such extensive parental leave, it's just subtle.

alkonaut 6y ago

> So then what exactly do you return to You can't know. It's supposed to be whatever I did before, or equivalent. Basically if they replace me I can make a fuss about wanting my position back or an equivalent position. In any case, you can't e.g. be at a worse pay grade even if you have a lower "position" than before. I have never seen it be a problem. > even thirty days absence should disrupt things, if an alternative isn't found.. We do 5 or 6 weeks holiday every year without problem, not sure why that would be such a big issue. Actually since I had kids I distribute out my remaining parental leave days to a couple of weeks per summer, so from ages 0-8 my summer holidays have been 7 or 8 weeks every year. No manager would even ask a question about this. > So its more like a vague promise Well it's the law... But most importantly so long as people want to take paternal leave, I think even the promise of being rehired is good enough. The key to the system working is that everyone does it. I wouldn't want to work for a manager that hadn't.

ajuc 6y ago

What do you do when somebody goes on vacations or gets a broken leg? Stop the business :)? Here people have 26 days of paid leave + 1 year of combined paternity+maternity leave per kid + paid health leave whenever a doctor decides it's needed. Businesses work just fine - they simply hire more people to offset the fact that everybody is expected to be out of office X% of the time. Also there are temporary contracts and B2B contracts if needed (less protection but also less taxes so they are quite popular with IT people).

romanoderoma 6y ago

> I dont understand how this could be a viable strategy That's one of those miracles that happen when people pay the right amount of taxes! It's incredible what social democracy can do for you if you stop fighting it in the name of the war to socialism! Isn't it? Personally I don't understand how is it viable to have a society where the GDP is astronomical and people have to spend their own money to pay insurance companies that make billions in profits, while women have no right to a fully paid maternal leave. Unless in those countries people are considered like cogs in the machine... > So its more like a vague promise You can' t be fired. It's by law.

peterjussi 6y ago

Companies just plan for redundancy in roles so they are ready when people need to take parental leave or sabbaticals. It isn't that difficult for a company to handle, but companies in countries where this isn't the norm just plan and hire for it.