4 ms·

Ban all Chinese apps?

LadyCailin 6y ago
Yeah. I don’t buy this argument until they ban all Chinese apps. As far as I can tell, it’s just a way to cut off younger voter’s access to information that is critical of Trump. And that’s a generous reading.
- benjamoon 6y ago
  There’s an absolute ton of pro Trump material on TikTok made by young people.
  - kenjackson 6y ago
    A LOT more that is anti-Trump I suspect.
    - kevinventullo 6y ago
      I use both Reddit and TikTok, and I would say Reddit is far more overtly liberal leaning by default, with pockets of right leaning folks. Reddit or Facebook are also much more natural meeting places which can foster discussion or even event planning. In contrast, comment threads on TikTok are kind of a mess; it's more of a broadcast platform.
- zo1 6y ago
  I do agree that this is about "controlling" younger / new of age voters. However, I'm less worried about whatever correct/incorrect info they get about Trump or politics in general. And more worried about the disturbing cultural trends that this app and others like it are amplifying. Culture can have strong effects on people's political/voting behavior and that's what I think is being addressed (as opposed to the spying/privacy/CCP concerns which are secondary yet used as the main reason behind this ban). I am pretty sure that Facebook/Youtube/Twitter will be targeted next in some way, but probably not with outright bans such as what they did with TikTok.
  - CraigJPerry 6y ago
    >> I am pretty sure that Facebook/Youtube/Twitter will be targeted next in some way Amnesty international was refused entry to observe the Assange trial. I don't know how it is on your FB search, your twitter search, even google news search, but this is harder information to find than i'd expect. Perhaps this genuinely isn't as newsworthy as i was thinking it should be but then i feel like i have been privvy to every minute detail of Carrie Lam (and the CCP) vs the protestors.
- jowday 6y ago
  Isn't QAnon huge on TikTok?
- miki123211 6y ago
  The only reason Trump has been able to pull this off is the fact that minors can't vote. If you deny voting rights to a certain group of people, politicians just don't have to care about them at all. They can do things that hurt that group, and no one is going to hold them accountable. At this point, I believe we should stop discriminating based on age.
  - shripadk 6y ago
    > At this point, I believe we should stop discriminating based on age. If the age of voting is lowered to 6 (as some have asked for: [1]) or even removed altogether what stops me from producing 5-10 kids and then having them vote for a political party that I support? That is 5-10 extra votes in just a decade. And if 1000 families do that, that would significantly tilt the outcome of an election. By the time they grow up to understand what their rights are and that they were being exploited by an adult they would feel disgusted that they were used (or rather misused). You are assuming that minors have inherent understanding of political issues at that young age. Most don't. And it is not reasonable to expect them to know. Voting should only be enabled for those who are completely aware of their rights. Children typically are not. They are not political by nature. They are playful and more interested in learning things around them. Turning them into political ballots waiting to be exploited by adults around them is the last thing we need in this already fractured World. [1]: https://reason.com/2018/12/07/should-we-let-children-vote-the-troublin/ https://reason.com/2018/12/07/should-we-let-children-vote-th...
    - drcoopster 6y ago
      You are assuming that most adults have an inherent understanding of political issues, too. Most don't.
      - shripadk 6y ago
        Yes but if you are an adult I can't coerce you into voting for a party of my choice. Children can be coerced. Children can be used as pawns. Schools can turn into political arenas. There are so many things that can go wrong by introducing politics at that young age. It is rare for adults to fall for peer pressure as you would have matured by then. Kids and teens can easily succumb to peer pressure. You might want to read about on peer pressure and age influence here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2779518/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2779518/ Do you really want your children to be exposed to political influence at such a tender age when they are already dealing with peer pressure, bullying and all other negative aspects that come with school life?
- robertlagrant 6y ago
  > it’s just a way to cut off younger voter’s access to information that is critical of Trump It may be a bad idea to do it, but this isn't the reason.
mschuster91 6y ago
There are few, if none Chinese apps that have that level of market domination TikTok has.
- nemetroid 6y ago
  And? Should there be a threshold of popularity above which you are not allowed to operate at all, but less popular apps are fine?
  - daniellarusso 6y ago
    I like that idea.
    - colejohnson66 6y ago
      If the claim is TikTok exfiltrating data on US citizens, then popularity shouldn’t matter.
DarthGhandi 6y ago
I can buy location data on millions of people across the world right now from American companies who make free apps What exactly is stopping the Chinese from buying that same data? Name one hindrance they will face, please. The delusional jingoism on HN is painful to fight. https://apnews.com/f6a83c0b8e0a65563e4c76955c37c0ab https://apnews.com/f6a83c0b8e0a65563e4c76955c37c0ab
- abc-xyz 6y ago
  But they cannot buy the same data - the quantity and quality of the data they obtain themselves (through apps like TikTok and WeChat that are running in the background 24/7 while collecting any information possible, such as secretly copying your clipboard which is likely to reveal passwords and other sensitive information) is far higher than what they could pay for. You’re also ignoring the fact that they can use their apps to easily spread propaganda and influence elections. They’ve already censored videos that criticized the Chinese government. And inside the app then they have a very prominent “Covid-19” button where they can cherrypick what information to display.. they’ve for instance chosen to omit the fact that the Wuhan Virus originated in China.
  - Talanes 6y ago
    > they’ve for instance chosen to omit the fact that the Wuhan Virus originated in China. Any social media platforms using the term "Wuhan Virus" would be a bigger sign of governmental propaganda than the lack is.
    - abc-xyz 6y ago
      It’s what everyone, including China, referred to it as before the CCP realized how serious it was and went on a campaign to rewrite history and distance themselves from responsibility.
    - Chakazul 6y ago
      For the record, "Wuhan Pneumonia" and "Wuhan Virus" were widely used by official news coverage in Taiwan, Hong Kong, and guess what, Mainland China, before the WHO suddenly dictated all people must use "Covid-19" or else you're racist or propagandist. This trick is very effective in erasing the obvious link between the virus and its origin.

Yeah. I don’t buy this argument until they ban all Chinese apps. As far as I can tell, it’s just a way to cut off younger voter’s access to information that is critical of Trump. And that’s a generous reading.

benjamoon 6y ago
There’s an absolute ton of pro Trump material on TikTok made by young people.
- kenjackson 6y ago
  A LOT more that is anti-Trump I suspect.
  - kevinventullo 6y ago
    I use both Reddit and TikTok, and I would say Reddit is far more overtly liberal leaning by default, with pockets of right leaning folks. Reddit or Facebook are also much more natural meeting places which can foster discussion or even event planning. In contrast, comment threads on TikTok are kind of a mess; it's more of a broadcast platform.
zo1 6y ago
I do agree that this is about "controlling" younger / new of age voters. However, I'm less worried about whatever correct/incorrect info they get about Trump or politics in general. And more worried about the disturbing cultural trends that this app and others like it are amplifying. Culture can have strong effects on people's political/voting behavior and that's what I think is being addressed (as opposed to the spying/privacy/CCP concerns which are secondary yet used as the main reason behind this ban). I am pretty sure that Facebook/Youtube/Twitter will be targeted next in some way, but probably not with outright bans such as what they did with TikTok.
- CraigJPerry 6y ago
  >> I am pretty sure that Facebook/Youtube/Twitter will be targeted next in some way Amnesty international was refused entry to observe the Assange trial. I don't know how it is on your FB search, your twitter search, even google news search, but this is harder information to find than i'd expect. Perhaps this genuinely isn't as newsworthy as i was thinking it should be but then i feel like i have been privvy to every minute detail of Carrie Lam (and the CCP) vs the protestors.
jowday 6y ago
Isn't QAnon huge on TikTok?
miki123211 6y ago
The only reason Trump has been able to pull this off is the fact that minors can't vote. If you deny voting rights to a certain group of people, politicians just don't have to care about them at all. They can do things that hurt that group, and no one is going to hold them accountable. At this point, I believe we should stop discriminating based on age.
- shripadk 6y ago
  > At this point, I believe we should stop discriminating based on age. If the age of voting is lowered to 6 (as some have asked for: [1]) or even removed altogether what stops me from producing 5-10 kids and then having them vote for a political party that I support? That is 5-10 extra votes in just a decade. And if 1000 families do that, that would significantly tilt the outcome of an election. By the time they grow up to understand what their rights are and that they were being exploited by an adult they would feel disgusted that they were used (or rather misused). You are assuming that minors have inherent understanding of political issues at that young age. Most don't. And it is not reasonable to expect them to know. Voting should only be enabled for those who are completely aware of their rights. Children typically are not. They are not political by nature. They are playful and more interested in learning things around them. Turning them into political ballots waiting to be exploited by adults around them is the last thing we need in this already fractured World. [1]: https://reason.com/2018/12/07/should-we-let-children-vote-the-troublin/ https://reason.com/2018/12/07/should-we-let-children-vote-th...
  - drcoopster 6y ago
    You are assuming that most adults have an inherent understanding of political issues, too. Most don't.
    - shripadk 6y ago
      Yes but if you are an adult I can't coerce you into voting for a party of my choice. Children can be coerced. Children can be used as pawns. Schools can turn into political arenas. There are so many things that can go wrong by introducing politics at that young age. It is rare for adults to fall for peer pressure as you would have matured by then. Kids and teens can easily succumb to peer pressure. You might want to read about on peer pressure and age influence here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2779518/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2779518/ Do you really want your children to be exposed to political influence at such a tender age when they are already dealing with peer pressure, bullying and all other negative aspects that come with school life?
robertlagrant 6y ago
> it’s just a way to cut off younger voter’s access to information that is critical of Trump It may be a bad idea to do it, but this isn't the reason.

mschuster91 6y ago

There are few, if none Chinese apps that have that level of market domination TikTok has.

nemetroid 6y ago
And? Should there be a threshold of popularity above which you are not allowed to operate at all, but less popular apps are fine?
- daniellarusso 6y ago
  I like that idea.
  - colejohnson66 6y ago
    If the claim is TikTok exfiltrating data on US citizens, then popularity shouldn’t matter.

DarthGhandi 6y ago

I can buy location data on millions of people across the world right now from American companies who make free apps What exactly is stopping the Chinese from buying that same data? Name one hindrance they will face, please. The delusional jingoism on HN is painful to fight. https://apnews.com/f6a83c0b8e0a65563e4c76955c37c0ab https://apnews.com/f6a83c0b8e0a65563e4c76955c37c0ab

abc-xyz 6y ago
But they cannot buy the same data - the quantity and quality of the data they obtain themselves (through apps like TikTok and WeChat that are running in the background 24/7 while collecting any information possible, such as secretly copying your clipboard which is likely to reveal passwords and other sensitive information) is far higher than what they could pay for. You’re also ignoring the fact that they can use their apps to easily spread propaganda and influence elections. They’ve already censored videos that criticized the Chinese government. And inside the app then they have a very prominent “Covid-19” button where they can cherrypick what information to display.. they’ve for instance chosen to omit the fact that the Wuhan Virus originated in China.
- Talanes 6y ago
  > they’ve for instance chosen to omit the fact that the Wuhan Virus originated in China. Any social media platforms using the term "Wuhan Virus" would be a bigger sign of governmental propaganda than the lack is.
  - abc-xyz 6y ago
    It’s what everyone, including China, referred to it as before the CCP realized how serious it was and went on a campaign to rewrite history and distance themselves from responsibility.
  - Chakazul 6y ago
    For the record, "Wuhan Pneumonia" and "Wuhan Virus" were widely used by official news coverage in Taiwan, Hong Kong, and guess what, Mainland China, before the WHO suddenly dictated all people must use "Covid-19" or else you're racist or propagandist. This trick is very effective in erasing the obvious link between the virus and its origin.