11 ms·

Theoretically, CCP could abuse location services to track movements of military personnel and civilians in a war. Since FB isn't Chinese, that is less of an iss

Theoretically, CCP could abuse location services to track movements of military personnel and civilians in a war. Since FB isn't Chinese, that is less of an issue for large scale surveilance. Also, if the Chinese had a zero day that they could exploit by pushing a malicious TikTok update, they could get root access to these phones and use them for surveillance on a large scale. Sure, this is all hypothetical, but it's not unthinkable in an all out cyber war. Nations are stockpiling zero days and other hacks just to have an advantage when it becomes necessary. Note: I don't have TikTok, so no clue if they actually use location services, but every app seems to do that nowadays, so I just assumed it does.

searchableguy 6y ago
Ban all Chinese apps?
- LadyCailin 6y ago
  Yeah. I don’t buy this argument until they ban all Chinese apps. As far as I can tell, it’s just a way to cut off younger voter’s access to information that is critical of Trump. And that’s a generous reading.
  - benjamoon 6y ago
    There’s an absolute ton of pro Trump material on TikTok made by young people.
    - kenjackson 6y ago
      A LOT more that is anti-Trump I suspect.
      - kevinventullo 6y ago
        I use both Reddit and TikTok, and I would say Reddit is far more overtly liberal leaning by default, with pockets of right leaning folks. Reddit or Facebook are also much more natural meeting places which can foster discussion or even event planning. In contrast, comment threads on TikTok are kind of a mess; it's more of a broadcast platform.
  - zo1 6y ago
    I do agree that this is about "controlling" younger / new of age voters. However, I'm less worried about whatever correct/incorrect info they get about Trump or politics in general. And more worried about the disturbing cultural trends that this app and others like it are amplifying. Culture can have strong effects on people's political/voting behavior and that's what I think is being addressed (as opposed to the spying/privacy/CCP concerns which are secondary yet used as the main reason behind this ban). I am pretty sure that Facebook/Youtube/Twitter will be targeted next in some way, but probably not with outright bans such as what they did with TikTok.
    - CraigJPerry 6y ago
      >> I am pretty sure that Facebook/Youtube/Twitter will be targeted next in some way Amnesty international was refused entry to observe the Assange trial. I don't know how it is on your FB search, your twitter search, even google news search, but this is harder information to find than i'd expect. Perhaps this genuinely isn't as newsworthy as i was thinking it should be but then i feel like i have been privvy to every minute detail of Carrie Lam (and the CCP) vs the protestors.
  - jowday 6y ago
    Isn't QAnon huge on TikTok?
  - miki123211 6y ago
    The only reason Trump has been able to pull this off is the fact that minors can't vote. If you deny voting rights to a certain group of people, politicians just don't have to care about them at all. They can do things that hurt that group, and no one is going to hold them accountable. At this point, I believe we should stop discriminating based on age.
    - shripadk 6y ago
      > At this point, I believe we should stop discriminating based on age. If the age of voting is lowered to 6 (as some have asked for: [1]) or even removed altogether what stops me from producing 5-10 kids and then having them vote for a political party that I support? That is 5-10 extra votes in just a decade. And if 1000 families do that, that would significantly tilt the outcome of an election. By the time they grow up to understand what their rights are and that they were being exploited by an adult they would feel disgusted that they were used (or rather misused). You are assuming that minors have inherent understanding of political issues at that young age. Most don't. And it is not reasonable to expect them to know. Voting should only be enabled for those who are completely aware of their rights. Children typically are not. They are not political by nature. They are playful and more interested in learning things around them. Turning them into political ballots waiting to be exploited by adults around them is the last thing we need in this already fractured World. [1]: https://reason.com/2018/12/07/should-we-let-children-vote-the-troublin/ https://reason.com/2018/12/07/should-we-let-children-vote-th...
      - drcoopster 6y ago
        You are assuming that most adults have an inherent understanding of political issues, too. Most don't.
        shripadk 6y ago
        Yes but if you are an adult I can't coerce you into voting for a party of my choice. Children can be coerced. Children can be used as pawns. Schools can turn into political arenas. There are so many things that can go wrong by introducing politics at that young age. It is rare for adults to fall for peer pressure as you would have matured by then. Kids and teens can easily succumb to peer pressure. You might want to read about on peer pressure and age influence here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2779518/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2779518/ Do you really want your children to be exposed to political influence at such a tender age when they are already dealing with peer pressure, bullying and all other negative aspects that come with school life?
  - robertlagrant 6y ago
    > it’s just a way to cut off younger voter’s access to information that is critical of Trump It may be a bad idea to do it, but this isn't the reason.
- mschuster91 6y ago
  There are few, if none Chinese apps that have that level of market domination TikTok has.
  - nemetroid 6y ago
    And? Should there be a threshold of popularity above which you are not allowed to operate at all, but less popular apps are fine?
    - daniellarusso 6y ago
      I like that idea.
      - colejohnson66 6y ago
        If the claim is TikTok exfiltrating data on US citizens, then popularity shouldn’t matter.
- DarthGhandi 6y ago
  I can buy location data on millions of people across the world right now from American companies who make free apps What exactly is stopping the Chinese from buying that same data? Name one hindrance they will face, please. The delusional jingoism on HN is painful to fight. https://apnews.com/f6a83c0b8e0a65563e4c76955c37c0ab https://apnews.com/f6a83c0b8e0a65563e4c76955c37c0ab
  - abc-xyz 6y ago
    But they cannot buy the same data - the quantity and quality of the data they obtain themselves (through apps like TikTok and WeChat that are running in the background 24/7 while collecting any information possible, such as secretly copying your clipboard which is likely to reveal passwords and other sensitive information) is far higher than what they could pay for. You’re also ignoring the fact that they can use their apps to easily spread propaganda and influence elections. They’ve already censored videos that criticized the Chinese government. And inside the app then they have a very prominent “Covid-19” button where they can cherrypick what information to display.. they’ve for instance chosen to omit the fact that the Wuhan Virus originated in China.
    - Talanes 6y ago
      > they’ve for instance chosen to omit the fact that the Wuhan Virus originated in China. Any social media platforms using the term "Wuhan Virus" would be a bigger sign of governmental propaganda than the lack is.
      - abc-xyz 6y ago
        It’s what everyone, including China, referred to it as before the CCP realized how serious it was and went on a campaign to rewrite history and distance themselves from responsibility.
      - Chakazul 6y ago
        For the record, "Wuhan Pneumonia" and "Wuhan Virus" were widely used by official news coverage in Taiwan, Hong Kong, and guess what, Mainland China, before the WHO suddenly dictated all people must use "Covid-19" or else you're racist or propagandist. This trick is very effective in erasing the obvious link between the virus and its origin.
CraigJPerry 6y ago
No thats strava fitness app with documented cases of this. If this was the concern, you’d see a lot more concern over fitness tracker apps that log routines and times.
publicola1990 6y ago
Fed government could simply order all federal employees off tiktok or any other service without legal hurdles. What is the point of banning for the general public.
- advanced-DnD 6y ago
  Let's say a child of a worker working in a nuclear reactor site for "Bring your daughter to work-day". She's ofcourse using tiktok, and guess who has that data now. This is just an example. If I spend enough time, I can think of a whole lot more examples.
  - slavak 6y ago
    Every single secure facility I've ever been to required you to leave your phone at the gate, and this was pre-smartphone days. The more serious ones prohibited even disk-on-keys.If you're relying on kids keeping their phones secure for your national security, you've already lost.
    - Fjolsvith 6y ago
      I thought this was the reason for the ban.
      - shadowgovt 6y ago
        I would believe that this is what the executive said was the reason for the ban. This administration has a significant pattern of their actual reasons deviating from their stated ones.
  - CraigJPerry 6y ago
    >> If I spend enough time, I can think of a whole lot more examples This was the genesis of the TSA, right?
  - SomeCollegeBro 6y ago
    That's such an odd and incredibly unrealistic scenario. Also, in your hypothetical example, there's nothing that could be gained from TikTok that they couldn't have already figured out from satellite imagery.
alias_neo 6y ago
Allegedly it collects a lot more than just location; https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/fxgi06/not_new_news_but_tbh_if_you_have_tiktiok_just_get/fmuko1m/?context=1 https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/fxgi06/not_new_news...
christocracy 6y ago
> so no clue if they actually use location services The iOS app doesn’t request Location permission.
tzs 6y ago
> Theoretically, CCP could abuse location services to track movements of military personnel and civilians in a war. Since FB isn't Chinese, that is less of an issue for large scale surveilance. Or the could just buy that information from the phone companies or data brokers.

searchableguy 6y ago

Ban all Chinese apps?

LadyCailin 6y ago
Yeah. I don’t buy this argument until they ban all Chinese apps. As far as I can tell, it’s just a way to cut off younger voter’s access to information that is critical of Trump. And that’s a generous reading.
- benjamoon 6y ago
  There’s an absolute ton of pro Trump material on TikTok made by young people.
  - kenjackson 6y ago
    A LOT more that is anti-Trump I suspect.
    - kevinventullo 6y ago
      I use both Reddit and TikTok, and I would say Reddit is far more overtly liberal leaning by default, with pockets of right leaning folks. Reddit or Facebook are also much more natural meeting places which can foster discussion or even event planning. In contrast, comment threads on TikTok are kind of a mess; it's more of a broadcast platform.
- zo1 6y ago
  I do agree that this is about "controlling" younger / new of age voters. However, I'm less worried about whatever correct/incorrect info they get about Trump or politics in general. And more worried about the disturbing cultural trends that this app and others like it are amplifying. Culture can have strong effects on people's political/voting behavior and that's what I think is being addressed (as opposed to the spying/privacy/CCP concerns which are secondary yet used as the main reason behind this ban). I am pretty sure that Facebook/Youtube/Twitter will be targeted next in some way, but probably not with outright bans such as what they did with TikTok.
  - CraigJPerry 6y ago
    >> I am pretty sure that Facebook/Youtube/Twitter will be targeted next in some way Amnesty international was refused entry to observe the Assange trial. I don't know how it is on your FB search, your twitter search, even google news search, but this is harder information to find than i'd expect. Perhaps this genuinely isn't as newsworthy as i was thinking it should be but then i feel like i have been privvy to every minute detail of Carrie Lam (and the CCP) vs the protestors.
- jowday 6y ago
  Isn't QAnon huge on TikTok?
- miki123211 6y ago
  The only reason Trump has been able to pull this off is the fact that minors can't vote. If you deny voting rights to a certain group of people, politicians just don't have to care about them at all. They can do things that hurt that group, and no one is going to hold them accountable. At this point, I believe we should stop discriminating based on age.
  - shripadk 6y ago
    > At this point, I believe we should stop discriminating based on age. If the age of voting is lowered to 6 (as some have asked for: [1]) or even removed altogether what stops me from producing 5-10 kids and then having them vote for a political party that I support? That is 5-10 extra votes in just a decade. And if 1000 families do that, that would significantly tilt the outcome of an election. By the time they grow up to understand what their rights are and that they were being exploited by an adult they would feel disgusted that they were used (or rather misused). You are assuming that minors have inherent understanding of political issues at that young age. Most don't. And it is not reasonable to expect them to know. Voting should only be enabled for those who are completely aware of their rights. Children typically are not. They are not political by nature. They are playful and more interested in learning things around them. Turning them into political ballots waiting to be exploited by adults around them is the last thing we need in this already fractured World. [1]: https://reason.com/2018/12/07/should-we-let-children-vote-the-troublin/ https://reason.com/2018/12/07/should-we-let-children-vote-th...
    - drcoopster 6y ago
      You are assuming that most adults have an inherent understanding of political issues, too. Most don't.
      - shripadk 6y ago
        Yes but if you are an adult I can't coerce you into voting for a party of my choice. Children can be coerced. Children can be used as pawns. Schools can turn into political arenas. There are so many things that can go wrong by introducing politics at that young age. It is rare for adults to fall for peer pressure as you would have matured by then. Kids and teens can easily succumb to peer pressure. You might want to read about on peer pressure and age influence here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2779518/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2779518/ Do you really want your children to be exposed to political influence at such a tender age when they are already dealing with peer pressure, bullying and all other negative aspects that come with school life?
- robertlagrant 6y ago
  > it’s just a way to cut off younger voter’s access to information that is critical of Trump It may be a bad idea to do it, but this isn't the reason.
mschuster91 6y ago
There are few, if none Chinese apps that have that level of market domination TikTok has.
- nemetroid 6y ago
  And? Should there be a threshold of popularity above which you are not allowed to operate at all, but less popular apps are fine?
  - daniellarusso 6y ago
    I like that idea.
    - colejohnson66 6y ago
      If the claim is TikTok exfiltrating data on US citizens, then popularity shouldn’t matter.
DarthGhandi 6y ago
I can buy location data on millions of people across the world right now from American companies who make free apps What exactly is stopping the Chinese from buying that same data? Name one hindrance they will face, please. The delusional jingoism on HN is painful to fight. https://apnews.com/f6a83c0b8e0a65563e4c76955c37c0ab https://apnews.com/f6a83c0b8e0a65563e4c76955c37c0ab
- abc-xyz 6y ago
  But they cannot buy the same data - the quantity and quality of the data they obtain themselves (through apps like TikTok and WeChat that are running in the background 24/7 while collecting any information possible, such as secretly copying your clipboard which is likely to reveal passwords and other sensitive information) is far higher than what they could pay for. You’re also ignoring the fact that they can use their apps to easily spread propaganda and influence elections. They’ve already censored videos that criticized the Chinese government. And inside the app then they have a very prominent “Covid-19” button where they can cherrypick what information to display.. they’ve for instance chosen to omit the fact that the Wuhan Virus originated in China.
  - Talanes 6y ago
    > they’ve for instance chosen to omit the fact that the Wuhan Virus originated in China. Any social media platforms using the term "Wuhan Virus" would be a bigger sign of governmental propaganda than the lack is.
    - abc-xyz 6y ago
      It’s what everyone, including China, referred to it as before the CCP realized how serious it was and went on a campaign to rewrite history and distance themselves from responsibility.
    - Chakazul 6y ago
      For the record, "Wuhan Pneumonia" and "Wuhan Virus" were widely used by official news coverage in Taiwan, Hong Kong, and guess what, Mainland China, before the WHO suddenly dictated all people must use "Covid-19" or else you're racist or propagandist. This trick is very effective in erasing the obvious link between the virus and its origin.

CraigJPerry 6y ago

No thats strava fitness app with documented cases of this. If this was the concern, you’d see a lot more concern over fitness tracker apps that log routines and times.

publicola1990 6y ago

Fed government could simply order all federal employees off tiktok or any other service without legal hurdles. What is the point of banning for the general public.

advanced-DnD 6y ago
Let's say a child of a worker working in a nuclear reactor site for "Bring your daughter to work-day". She's ofcourse using tiktok, and guess who has that data now. This is just an example. If I spend enough time, I can think of a whole lot more examples.
- slavak 6y ago
  Every single secure facility I've ever been to required you to leave your phone at the gate, and this was pre-smartphone days. The more serious ones prohibited even disk-on-keys.If you're relying on kids keeping their phones secure for your national security, you've already lost.
  - Fjolsvith 6y ago
    I thought this was the reason for the ban.
    - shadowgovt 6y ago
      I would believe that this is what the executive said was the reason for the ban. This administration has a significant pattern of their actual reasons deviating from their stated ones.
- CraigJPerry 6y ago
  >> If I spend enough time, I can think of a whole lot more examples This was the genesis of the TSA, right?
- SomeCollegeBro 6y ago
  That's such an odd and incredibly unrealistic scenario. Also, in your hypothetical example, there's nothing that could be gained from TikTok that they couldn't have already figured out from satellite imagery.

alias_neo 6y ago

Allegedly it collects a lot more than just location; https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/fxgi06/not_new_news_but_tbh_if_you_have_tiktiok_just_get/fmuko1m/?context=1 https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/fxgi06/not_new_news...

christocracy 6y ago

> so no clue if they actually use location services The iOS app doesn’t request Location permission.

tzs 6y ago

> Theoretically, CCP could abuse location services to track movements of military personnel and civilians in a war. Since FB isn't Chinese, that is less of an issue for large scale surveilance. Or the could just buy that information from the phone companies or data brokers.