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You know you don't have to argue about who's in the wrong here? It's okay to accept that both the USA and China are in the wrong, not everything has to be a fig

You know you don't have to argue about who's in the wrong here? It's okay to accept that both the USA and China are in the wrong, not everything has to be a fight with a winner. China for having uncomfortable amounts of government control/vision over the data and operations of Chinese social media companies. And the USA for singling out Tik Tok seemingly arbitrarily, and banning it for "national security" reasons without going into any detail about what they are or what evidence they have for them. (And it potentially violating 1A rights, being inconsistent with treatment of other foreign companies etc etc).

p1necone 6y ago
There's another argument to be had about whether Chinese spying is "worse" than western spying because it's officially legitimized by the policies of the Chinese government. And whether it's also "worse" because China is more authoritarian and oppressive with it's own citizens. I'm making an assumption here that because of these two things it's mostly generally accepted that the Chinese surveillance state is "worse" than the USA surveillance state (and I largely agree with that take, but figured I should still state my priors here in case this isn't uncontroversial).
- mechnesium 6y ago
  I don’t think Chinese surveillance is worse for people outside of China. Your local government’s surveillance will always be worse, because it has the capability to act upon the data collected on you, since you are in their jurisdiction.
mechnesium 6y ago
> USA for singling out Tik Tok seemingly arbitrarily, and banning it for "national security" reasons without going into any detail about what they are or what evidence they have for them. It’s McCarthyism all over again. This type of behavior, coming from the very top of the US government, is unacceptable. It’s an erosion of your freedoms and needs to be vehemently fought.
- ardy42 6y ago
  > It’s McCarthyism all over again. This isn't McCarthyism, and to call it that shows a lack of understanding of what McCarthyism actually was.
CivBase 6y ago
Idk if the ban is justifiable or not, but the singling out of TikTok is definitely not arbitrary. They have quickly become one of the most prominant social media networks and are 80% owned by a China - a nation who the US is actively engaged in a trade war with - one who is legally allowed to compel the company to provide access to private data or modify the platform for the ruling party's benefit in secret - one who has a long history of using data, propaganda, and force to suppress ideological dissenters. Whether or not the ban is appropriate, there is nothing arbitrary about it.

p1necone 6y ago

There's another argument to be had about whether Chinese spying is "worse" than western spying because it's officially legitimized by the policies of the Chinese government. And whether it's also "worse" because China is more authoritarian and oppressive with it's own citizens. I'm making an assumption here that because of these two things it's mostly generally accepted that the Chinese surveillance state is "worse" than the USA surveillance state (and I largely agree with that take, but figured I should still state my priors here in case this isn't uncontroversial).

mechnesium 6y ago
I don’t think Chinese surveillance is worse for people outside of China. Your local government’s surveillance will always be worse, because it has the capability to act upon the data collected on you, since you are in their jurisdiction.

mechnesium 6y ago

> USA for singling out Tik Tok seemingly arbitrarily, and banning it for "national security" reasons without going into any detail about what they are or what evidence they have for them. It’s McCarthyism all over again. This type of behavior, coming from the very top of the US government, is unacceptable. It’s an erosion of your freedoms and needs to be vehemently fought.

ardy42 6y ago
> It’s McCarthyism all over again. This isn't McCarthyism, and to call it that shows a lack of understanding of what McCarthyism actually was.

CivBase 6y ago

Idk if the ban is justifiable or not, but the singling out of TikTok is definitely not arbitrary. They have quickly become one of the most prominant social media networks and are 80% owned by a China - a nation who the US is actively engaged in a trade war with - one who is legally allowed to compel the company to provide access to private data or modify the platform for the ruling party's benefit in secret - one who has a long history of using data, propaganda, and force to suppress ideological dissenters. Whether or not the ban is appropriate, there is nothing arbitrary about it.