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If they successfully do that then isn't that in fact the exact democracy working as it should? If you turn it around, you are endorsing the US government cutti

by zmmmmm 6y ago

If they successfully do that then isn't that in fact the exact democracy working as it should? If you turn it around, you are endorsing the US government cutting off free speech specifically to manipulate people's voting opinions towards its own perception of what is "good". That seems almost exactly the opposite of the spirit of the constitution. Perhaps an appropriate response here would be to detect this manipulation and highlight and educate people about it. Possibly create regulation to outlaw specific types of highly problematic aspects of it. But I find it hard to simultaneously accept that it's both so subtle as to be undetectable and unregulatable and yet so terrible it warrants arbitrary restraint of free speech.

aggronn 6y ago
I don't think the problem is that if/when it happens, it will be "undetectable". The issue is that if we have a polarized party-over-country political environment (which we do currently have), there is absolutely no guarantee a) that there will be a consensus about that the problem is real, that it matters, and that it should be addressed, b) that the party in power doesn't stand to benefit from interference and therefore takes no action, and c) we will have eyes looking at this seriously before it is "too late". Protecting free speech of geopolitical competitors (China) and their economic agents (TikTok) is legitimate avenue for democratic destabilization.
- watwut 6y ago
  It seems to me that democratic destabilization in US is already in full swing and has nothing to do with TikTok subtly changing youth opinions.
  - fsflover 6y ago
    But it might have something to do with Facebook advertisement paid by whoever pays more.
  - aggronn 6y ago
    The issue isn't whether TikTok is currently doing it or no, its whether this is a national security risk in the future, which is absolutely is. I think he's an idiot and he's using the issue to distract from Russian interference, but its a concern that if you only wait to address this _after_ its already a problem, it will already be unaddressable for the reasons enumerated in my comment.
fuzxi 6y ago
Free speech is a right that applies to citizens, not foreign governments.

by zmmmmm 6y ago

aggronn 6y ago

I don't think the problem is that if/when it happens, it will be "undetectable". The issue is that if we have a polarized party-over-country political environment (which we do currently have), there is absolutely no guarantee a) that there will be a consensus about that the problem is real, that it matters, and that it should be addressed, b) that the party in power doesn't stand to benefit from interference and therefore takes no action, and c) we will have eyes looking at this seriously before it is "too late". Protecting free speech of geopolitical competitors (China) and their economic agents (TikTok) is legitimate avenue for democratic destabilization.

watwut 6y ago
It seems to me that democratic destabilization in US is already in full swing and has nothing to do with TikTok subtly changing youth opinions.
- fsflover 6y ago
  But it might have something to do with Facebook advertisement paid by whoever pays more.
- aggronn 6y ago
  The issue isn't whether TikTok is currently doing it or no, its whether this is a national security risk in the future, which is absolutely is. I think he's an idiot and he's using the issue to distract from Russian interference, but its a concern that if you only wait to address this _after_ its already a problem, it will already be unaddressable for the reasons enumerated in my comment.

fuzxi 6y ago

Free speech is a right that applies to citizens, not foreign governments.