4 ms·

This whole shift to China as the new "enemy" is fascinating. Even though Trump is more or less mental, and is recognised as such, he has somehow managed to whip

by jahaja 6y ago

This whole shift to China as the new "enemy" is fascinating. Even though Trump is more or less mental, and is recognised as such, he has somehow managed to whip up this new cold war frenzy even among his opponents in the media. I can barely remember any focus on China before Trump. Not saying that there shouldn't be any but it's still interesting how this can spread to the entire country even if the author is an untrustworthy demagogue.

MattGaiser 6y ago
> I can barely remember any focus on China before Trump. Maybe not in the mass media, but the new cold war preceded Trump as an issue. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Asian_foreign_policy_of_the_Barack_Obama_administration#The_pivot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Asian_foreign_policy_of_t...
- jahaja 6y ago
  Sure, but now it's at a level where arbitrarily banning Chinese products barely meet resistence from the opposition and media.
pessimizer 6y ago
Russia, Iran, and North Korea will be rotated back in again. The important thing is to maintain public support for increased defense expenditures.
- fastball 6y ago
  Are you trying to imply that those countries aren't real enemies of the US and it's all just a war with Oceania? You should probably break the news to them, given their continued behavior I'm not sure they're aware it's all a front.
- 082349872349872 6y ago
  For some value of "defense". Back when the US DOD was called Department of War, it had (at various times) flagged boots on the ground in china[1], north korea, and russia[2]. Iran, on the other hand, was a brit show up until Ajax (1953) or so: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–United_Kingdom_relations#Pahlavi_era https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–United_Kingdom_relations#... The US would not formally take the baton before ending Suez (1957). [1] In the lost opportunities department, General Wedemeyer on "who lost china?" (emphasis mine): > "If Uncle Sugar, Russia, and Britain united strongly in their endeavor to bring about a coalition of these two political parties [the Kuomintang and the Chinese Communist Party] in China by coercing both sides to make realistic concessions, serious post-war disturbance may be averted and timely effective military employment of all Chinese may be obtained against the Japanese. I use the term coercion advisedly because it is my conviction that continued appeals to both sides couched in polite diplomatic terms will not accomplish unification." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Coady_Wedemeyer#China-Burma-India_Command https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Coady_Wedemeyer#China-B... [2] thanks to burnaway's excellent search fu: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24490540 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24490540 I learned US propaganda in 1914-1918 had not only been officially going to russia, but also the then-white entities (where American Expeditionary Forces were operating) archangel and siberia.
fastball 6y ago
I don't think you were paying attention.
- jahaja 6y ago
  I wasn't?
082349872349872 6y ago
It makes sense according to the Sith Rule of Two. Other countries historically accompanying the US in the top GDP pair included the soviet union and japan, so no surprise that today china would get the two minutes hate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_largest_historical_GDP#By_average_values_of_GDP_(nominal) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_largest_h... (right now I'd say india is too underdeveloped and too important a part of Oceania, but assuming the US remains in a position to believe it embodies power two or three decades from now, we'll see if india gets the hate, too.)
dyadic 6y ago
It's been happening since Obama's Pivot to Asia, it's just a lot more noticeable now since Trump has no subtlety.

by jahaja 6y ago

MattGaiser 6y ago

> I can barely remember any focus on China before Trump. Maybe not in the mass media, but the new cold war preceded Trump as an issue. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Asian_foreign_policy_of_the_Barack_Obama_administration#The_pivot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Asian_foreign_policy_of_t...

jahaja 6y ago
Sure, but now it's at a level where arbitrarily banning Chinese products barely meet resistence from the opposition and media.

pessimizer 6y ago

Russia, Iran, and North Korea will be rotated back in again. The important thing is to maintain public support for increased defense expenditures.

fastball 6y ago
Are you trying to imply that those countries aren't real enemies of the US and it's all just a war with Oceania? You should probably break the news to them, given their continued behavior I'm not sure they're aware it's all a front.
082349872349872 6y ago
For some value of "defense". Back when the US DOD was called Department of War, it had (at various times) flagged boots on the ground in china[1], north korea, and russia[2]. Iran, on the other hand, was a brit show up until Ajax (1953) or so: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–United_Kingdom_relations#Pahlavi_era https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–United_Kingdom_relations#... The US would not formally take the baton before ending Suez (1957). [1] In the lost opportunities department, General Wedemeyer on "who lost china?" (emphasis mine): > "If Uncle Sugar, Russia, and Britain united strongly in their endeavor to bring about a coalition of these two political parties [the Kuomintang and the Chinese Communist Party] in China by coercing both sides to make realistic concessions, serious post-war disturbance may be averted and timely effective military employment of all Chinese may be obtained against the Japanese. I use the term coercion advisedly because it is my conviction that continued appeals to both sides couched in polite diplomatic terms will not accomplish unification." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Coady_Wedemeyer#China-Burma-India_Command https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Coady_Wedemeyer#China-B... [2] thanks to burnaway's excellent search fu: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24490540 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24490540 I learned US propaganda in 1914-1918 had not only been officially going to russia, but also the then-white entities (where American Expeditionary Forces were operating) archangel and siberia.

fastball 6y ago

I don't think you were paying attention.

jahaja 6y ago
I wasn't?

082349872349872 6y ago

It makes sense according to the Sith Rule of Two. Other countries historically accompanying the US in the top GDP pair included the soviet union and japan, so no surprise that today china would get the two minutes hate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_largest_historical_GDP#By_average_values_of_GDP_(nominal) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_largest_h... (right now I'd say india is too underdeveloped and too important a part of Oceania, but assuming the US remains in a position to believe it embodies power two or three decades from now, we'll see if india gets the hate, too.)

dyadic 6y ago

It's been happening since Obama's Pivot to Asia, it's just a lot more noticeable now since Trump has no subtlety.