3 ms·

Nice to know that Apple was given equal legal consideration in China in 2016 when its iBooks store and iTunes movie store were suddenly ordered shut after six m

Nice to know that Apple was given equal legal consideration in China in 2016 when its iBooks store and iTunes movie store were suddenly ordered shut after six months of operation. Oh, wait. . . they weren't given any legal recourse at all and the Obama administration did nothing about it while Silicon Valley grandees kept conspicuously silent. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/22/technology/apple-no-longer-immune-to-chinas-scrutiny-of-us-tech-firms.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/22/technology/apple-no-longe...

nkozyra 6y ago
I don't see how those are analogous. Shouldn't you be complaining that a Chinese court didn't temporarily block the Apple ban?
- tatrajim 6y ago
  Precisely. There is no legal remedy in China for cases such as Apple's, a situation that the Hacker News et al. communities blandly accept in silence while valorizing attempts by ByteDance and WeChat to game the US system for profitable access. Why the Western world accepts as legitimate the products of a closed society that relies on ubiquitous censorship and withholds free access to the outside world through a national firewall is hard for me to fathom. I have lived in China, South Korea, and Taiwan off and on for decades and believe the people of PRC deserve better.
  - YarickR2 6y ago
    Most of the world should ban US-originating social networks, then ; also cars, planes, music, movies, and intellectual property
  - HeyZuess 6y ago
    > Why the Western world accepts as legitimate the products of a closed society that relies on ubiquitous censorship and withholds free access to the outside world through a national firewall is hard for me to fathom. I have lived in China, South Korea, and Taiwan off and on for decades and believe the people of PRC deserve better. I agree, people of many countries deserve much better. However restricting trade, sanctions, undermining diplomatic relationships etc rarely do anything other than harm the citizens of the country. It's difficult but not impossible to tell someone off while doing the same thing yourself. As far as national security goes, the US has a checkered history of interfering with other countries. As far as the rights of citizens within a country again a checkered modern history. As far as political manipulation .... etc etc, I think you get the picture. I am not saying the US is as bad as China, but some of their actions would surely deserve reprimand as well. But I doubt the US is sitting there and doing this for the "concerns" of the residents of these countries. Now in the case of TikTok, I think this is a great case for protection of data in ALL countries. GDPR is a good example of this.
AlexandrB 6y ago
So the correct course of action, in your opinion, is to move towards a China-style legal system? If not, then what's your point?
- georgeburdell 6y ago
  It sounds like OP is arguing for reciprocity. Why should we give due process to Chinese companies if American companies are not given due process in China? Chinese companies are taking advantage of our tolerance and fairness. We should be intolerant of intolerance.
  - YarickR2 6y ago
    I love this line of reasoning. Next step is labor camp for non-Uighur Chinese, I guess; on American soil, no less, and inmates will be working for Apple and Nike
    - Foober223 6y ago
      So if a bad country with concentration camps is doing bad things, you can't counter them? If you try to stop them, it might be a slippery slope to concentration camps?
Spivak 6y ago
Are you… upset that the US is doing, in your mind, the right thing? Like if you just want to vent about the Chinese government then rock on but I kinda doubt you want the US government to start taking pages out of the CCP’s playbook.
- Foober223 6y ago
  You can have a policy of reciprocation with 1 offending country, without changing free and open business culture with others.
sunkenvicar 6y ago
China is laughing at us while their shills feign ignorance.

nkozyra 6y ago

I don't see how those are analogous. Shouldn't you be complaining that a Chinese court didn't temporarily block the Apple ban?

tatrajim 6y ago
Precisely. There is no legal remedy in China for cases such as Apple's, a situation that the Hacker News et al. communities blandly accept in silence while valorizing attempts by ByteDance and WeChat to game the US system for profitable access. Why the Western world accepts as legitimate the products of a closed society that relies on ubiquitous censorship and withholds free access to the outside world through a national firewall is hard for me to fathom. I have lived in China, South Korea, and Taiwan off and on for decades and believe the people of PRC deserve better.
- YarickR2 6y ago
  Most of the world should ban US-originating social networks, then ; also cars, planes, music, movies, and intellectual property
- HeyZuess 6y ago
  > Why the Western world accepts as legitimate the products of a closed society that relies on ubiquitous censorship and withholds free access to the outside world through a national firewall is hard for me to fathom. I have lived in China, South Korea, and Taiwan off and on for decades and believe the people of PRC deserve better. I agree, people of many countries deserve much better. However restricting trade, sanctions, undermining diplomatic relationships etc rarely do anything other than harm the citizens of the country. It's difficult but not impossible to tell someone off while doing the same thing yourself. As far as national security goes, the US has a checkered history of interfering with other countries. As far as the rights of citizens within a country again a checkered modern history. As far as political manipulation .... etc etc, I think you get the picture. I am not saying the US is as bad as China, but some of their actions would surely deserve reprimand as well. But I doubt the US is sitting there and doing this for the "concerns" of the residents of these countries. Now in the case of TikTok, I think this is a great case for protection of data in ALL countries. GDPR is a good example of this.

AlexandrB 6y ago

So the correct course of action, in your opinion, is to move towards a China-style legal system? If not, then what's your point?

georgeburdell 6y ago
It sounds like OP is arguing for reciprocity. Why should we give due process to Chinese companies if American companies are not given due process in China? Chinese companies are taking advantage of our tolerance and fairness. We should be intolerant of intolerance.
- YarickR2 6y ago
  I love this line of reasoning. Next step is labor camp for non-Uighur Chinese, I guess; on American soil, no less, and inmates will be working for Apple and Nike
  - Foober223 6y ago
    So if a bad country with concentration camps is doing bad things, you can't counter them? If you try to stop them, it might be a slippery slope to concentration camps?

Spivak 6y ago

Are you… upset that the US is doing, in your mind, the right thing? Like if you just want to vent about the Chinese government then rock on but I kinda doubt you want the US government to start taking pages out of the CCP’s playbook.

Foober223 6y ago
You can have a policy of reciprocation with 1 offending country, without changing free and open business culture with others.

sunkenvicar 6y ago

China is laughing at us while their shills feign ignorance.