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Wow, I just looked him up as I was unaware of the sentence and he received two life sentences with no parole in Federal prison for a first offender who made an

by s0rce 6y ago

Wow, I just looked him up as I was unaware of the sentence and he received two life sentences with no parole in Federal prison for a first offender who made an online market place (for illicit goods).

tyingq 6y ago
Yep. They first put him in the Florence Supermax, which has a terrific policy where you first do 3 years of solitary. Since transferred to USP Tuscon, a high security, but not Supermax facility. Looks like they shut down visitation for the COVID duration.
- phobosanomaly 6y ago
  Holy smokes, you're not wrong. Seems a bit out of proportion. "Federal Bureau of Prisons director Norman Carlson argued for the creation of a new type of facility where the most dangerous, uncontrollable inmates could be isolated from correction officers and other prisoners for security and safety. Under his guidance, Marion Penitentiary was operated in "permanent lockdown" for the next two decades. It became a model for the design of ADX as a control unit prison. Carlson said that such a prison would hold criminals desperate enough to murder corrections officers or other inmates in the hopes of being sentenced to death. He argued that as draconian as these measures were, they were the only way to deal with inmates who have "absolutely no concern for human life."" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADX_Florence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADX_Florence
  - CerealFounder 6y ago
    I dont get why. If you want the upside of businesses of scale (profits) why would you not get the downside of criminality at scale? This is a moralistic version of privatize the gains and socialize the losses. Im not even a big law and order guy, but the "go easy, boys will be boys" take seems baseless.
    - loeg 6y ago
      The isolation is to keep inmates from murdering guards ("most dangerous, uncontrollable inmates could be isolated from correction officers and other prisoners for security and safety"). Dread Pirate Roberts is a keyboard jockey with no priors. It seems unlikely he will attempt to murder guards.
    - phobosanomaly 6y ago
      Ross Ulbricht definitely owes a debt to society, but I don't think he falls into the category of "the most dangerous, uncontrollable inmates." Is this guy going to stab a CO because they disrespected him?
  - warent 6y ago
    Solitary confinement in general is out of proportion, particularly for extended periods. In my opinion it should be a violation of the Eighth amendment and they need to shut down Florence, but few people fight for it because it's full of really wicked humans. Important to remember they are still humans and torturing them is not okay. That being said I also think that the life sentencing was probably appropriate considering he started the silk road as a fully grown man, so it's a clear reflection of his morals and empathy. It's difficult to think about how many addictions, overdoses, and so forth that he helped to enable, in addition to assaults and murders (silk road sold weapons and services). Not saying that it wouldn't have happened without him, but certainly enabling these things to be trafficked does not provide net positive to the world.
    - djsumdog 6y ago
      Some people are kept in solitary for their own protection. People who hurt children tend not to make it long in prison. I went to high school with a kid who murdered both of his parents, and he was put in solitary mostly for his protection. It's more of a sad state of American prisons where crimes like this are common and seemingly unstoppable in US prisons.
      - phobosanomaly 6y ago
        As sort of an extension of that, the fact that prison rape is socially accepted as just a part of going to prison is absolutely terrifying to me. "In 2001, Human Rights Watch estimated that at least 4.3 million inmates had been raped while incarcerated in the United States." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_rape_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_rape_in_the_United_Stat...
    - tempsolution 6y ago
      > but certainly enabling these things to be trafficked does not provide net positive to the world. You really wanna go there? Seriously? Nobody forces you to use drugs. It doesn't even harm anyone else directly. He didn't even sell drugs directly, he offered a marketplace for others to sell drug on. What about pawn shops? Should we lock em all up in super max prisons for providing weapons to people? I mean here the intent is at least directly to harm people other than the client, while with drugs its just to harm clients. Net positive... LOL Name a single politican that does provide a net positive to the world. How about Trump? What about locking him up? Did he provide a net positive to the world? He has a list of crimes that could wrap buildings in documents, however he is president of the US, which somehow manages to kill more people in a year than this guy could have killed indirectly in a life-time. But hey, yeah lock em up! > so it's a clear reflection of his morals and empathy. Oh is it? So what now? We lock up everything who doesn't have your high moral standards in a federal super max? Oh wait, your morals seem a bit off actually. I think you are kindof insane. How about locking you up? Do you provide a net positive to the world? Probably not. Wait, let me just call 911 so they can lock you away for life.
sterlind 6y ago
The Silk Road caused unprecedented embarrassment for the DEA and other agencies. Each news report about it just made it more known and popular, and highlighted the fact that the Federal government couldn't track down the website or its administrators. The combination of Tor and Bitcoin made a brazen drug bazaar untraceable yet widely accessible for the first time ever. So they brought the hammer down hard. He did get slapped with attempted murder for trying to hire a hitman online, as well. But doubtless his sentence reflected how incompetent it made the feds look.
- umvi 6y ago
  > He did get slapped with attempted murder for trying to hire a hitman online, as well Holy crap, the way you read these threads you would think drug dealers are totally harmless and being wrongfully punished for victimless crimes but this dude showed he was totally willing to commit murder. But yeah, a bit over the top.
  - thatcat 6y ago
    >this dude showed he was totally willing to commit murder That's a gross overstatement. An agent who had infiltrated the site convinced him to agree to allow the agent to hire a hitman to kill another person on the site. This was after agents had already kidnapped and tortured the second person and used his account to threaten dpr. There was no attempt at conviction on that charge.
    - MertsA 6y ago
      That agent was also Carl Mark Force IV, who is currently in prison for, among other things, surreptitiously trying to extort money out of DPR on the side and hiding that from the DEA. The prosecution withheld all evidence surrounding the corrupt DEA agent and Secret Service agent from the defense. I don't know if Ross wrote that message or not, but at the very least Force was already caught trying to frame the Silk Road administrator they had in custody for the theft. I find his testimony more suspicious than Ross's, and the logs were 100% up to him to write whatever he wanted.
    - 6y ago

by s0rce 6y ago

tyingq 6y ago

Yep. They first put him in the Florence Supermax, which has a terrific policy where you first do 3 years of solitary. Since transferred to USP Tuscon, a high security, but not Supermax facility. Looks like they shut down visitation for the COVID duration.

phobosanomaly 6y ago
Holy smokes, you're not wrong. Seems a bit out of proportion. "Federal Bureau of Prisons director Norman Carlson argued for the creation of a new type of facility where the most dangerous, uncontrollable inmates could be isolated from correction officers and other prisoners for security and safety. Under his guidance, Marion Penitentiary was operated in "permanent lockdown" for the next two decades. It became a model for the design of ADX as a control unit prison. Carlson said that such a prison would hold criminals desperate enough to murder corrections officers or other inmates in the hopes of being sentenced to death. He argued that as draconian as these measures were, they were the only way to deal with inmates who have "absolutely no concern for human life."" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADX_Florence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADX_Florence
- CerealFounder 6y ago
  I dont get why. If you want the upside of businesses of scale (profits) why would you not get the downside of criminality at scale? This is a moralistic version of privatize the gains and socialize the losses. Im not even a big law and order guy, but the "go easy, boys will be boys" take seems baseless.
  - loeg 6y ago
    The isolation is to keep inmates from murdering guards ("most dangerous, uncontrollable inmates could be isolated from correction officers and other prisoners for security and safety"). Dread Pirate Roberts is a keyboard jockey with no priors. It seems unlikely he will attempt to murder guards.
  - phobosanomaly 6y ago
    Ross Ulbricht definitely owes a debt to society, but I don't think he falls into the category of "the most dangerous, uncontrollable inmates." Is this guy going to stab a CO because they disrespected him?
- warent 6y ago
  Solitary confinement in general is out of proportion, particularly for extended periods. In my opinion it should be a violation of the Eighth amendment and they need to shut down Florence, but few people fight for it because it's full of really wicked humans. Important to remember they are still humans and torturing them is not okay. That being said I also think that the life sentencing was probably appropriate considering he started the silk road as a fully grown man, so it's a clear reflection of his morals and empathy. It's difficult to think about how many addictions, overdoses, and so forth that he helped to enable, in addition to assaults and murders (silk road sold weapons and services). Not saying that it wouldn't have happened without him, but certainly enabling these things to be trafficked does not provide net positive to the world.
  - djsumdog 6y ago
    Some people are kept in solitary for their own protection. People who hurt children tend not to make it long in prison. I went to high school with a kid who murdered both of his parents, and he was put in solitary mostly for his protection. It's more of a sad state of American prisons where crimes like this are common and seemingly unstoppable in US prisons.
    - phobosanomaly 6y ago
      As sort of an extension of that, the fact that prison rape is socially accepted as just a part of going to prison is absolutely terrifying to me. "In 2001, Human Rights Watch estimated that at least 4.3 million inmates had been raped while incarcerated in the United States." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_rape_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_rape_in_the_United_Stat...
  - tempsolution 6y ago
    > but certainly enabling these things to be trafficked does not provide net positive to the world. You really wanna go there? Seriously? Nobody forces you to use drugs. It doesn't even harm anyone else directly. He didn't even sell drugs directly, he offered a marketplace for others to sell drug on. What about pawn shops? Should we lock em all up in super max prisons for providing weapons to people? I mean here the intent is at least directly to harm people other than the client, while with drugs its just to harm clients. Net positive... LOL Name a single politican that does provide a net positive to the world. How about Trump? What about locking him up? Did he provide a net positive to the world? He has a list of crimes that could wrap buildings in documents, however he is president of the US, which somehow manages to kill more people in a year than this guy could have killed indirectly in a life-time. But hey, yeah lock em up! > so it's a clear reflection of his morals and empathy. Oh is it? So what now? We lock up everything who doesn't have your high moral standards in a federal super max? Oh wait, your morals seem a bit off actually. I think you are kindof insane. How about locking you up? Do you provide a net positive to the world? Probably not. Wait, let me just call 911 so they can lock you away for life.

sterlind 6y ago

The Silk Road caused unprecedented embarrassment for the DEA and other agencies. Each news report about it just made it more known and popular, and highlighted the fact that the Federal government couldn't track down the website or its administrators. The combination of Tor and Bitcoin made a brazen drug bazaar untraceable yet widely accessible for the first time ever. So they brought the hammer down hard. He did get slapped with attempted murder for trying to hire a hitman online, as well. But doubtless his sentence reflected how incompetent it made the feds look.

umvi 6y ago
> He did get slapped with attempted murder for trying to hire a hitman online, as well Holy crap, the way you read these threads you would think drug dealers are totally harmless and being wrongfully punished for victimless crimes but this dude showed he was totally willing to commit murder. But yeah, a bit over the top.
- thatcat 6y ago
  >this dude showed he was totally willing to commit murder That's a gross overstatement. An agent who had infiltrated the site convinced him to agree to allow the agent to hire a hitman to kill another person on the site. This was after agents had already kidnapped and tortured the second person and used his account to threaten dpr. There was no attempt at conviction on that charge.
  - MertsA 6y ago
    That agent was also Carl Mark Force IV, who is currently in prison for, among other things, surreptitiously trying to extort money out of DPR on the side and hiding that from the DEA. The prosecution withheld all evidence surrounding the corrupt DEA agent and Secret Service agent from the defense. I don't know if Ross wrote that message or not, but at the very least Force was already caught trying to frame the Silk Road administrator they had in custody for the theft. I find his testimony more suspicious than Ross's, and the logs were 100% up to him to write whatever he wanted.
  - 6y ago