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Great thread here that covers his loans https://twitter.com/DanAlexander21/status/1310346161816064000 https://twitter.com/DanAlexander21/status/1310346161816064
by ENOTTY 6y ago
Great thread here that covers his loans https://twitter.com/DanAlexander21/status/1310346161816064000 https://twitter.com/DanAlexander21/status/131034616181606400...
EDIT: I accidentally a 'that'
- tertiary 6y agoFor those that don't want to click through: He is on the hook personally for hundreds of millions of dollars in debt that will come due next few years during his potential second term with no obvious way of paying it off. There's no way of knowing who has control of it. Edit: and also from the thread, he owes > $1 Billion in total to lenders.
- adamiscool8 6y agoBut there's no indication presented this won't all be easily re-financeable, rolled over as most corporate debt is.
- boringg 6y agoTrue except that this article will make it more challenging given a greater whole picture of his finances for financiers.
- acdha 6y agoYou mean other than all of the past problems getting credit which forced him to seek out foreign funding in the first place? His businesses lose money and having so many bankruptcies where his partners have been left holding the bag is going to deter most bankers unless they have other ways to recoup their money. Here’s an old report about his credit rating - note the “likely to default”: https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/trumps-business-credit-score-is-19-out-of-a-possible-100 https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/trumps-business-credit-... Here’s an example of what it took for him to get loans in the past: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/18/business/deutsche-bank-donald-trump.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/18/business/deutsche-bank-do...
- digitaltrees 6y agoThe only bank that was lending to him, deutsche bank, literally had a board meeting and investigation to determine how he was able to bypass internal controls and get more loans after they had halted lending to him (he basically got the private wealth division to keep going after the commercial division said no more). If that is the most favorable lender left, future loans from anyone seem unlikely.
- cm2187 6y agoCommercial real estate loans are often non recourse. You lend to the holding company who owns the property. If it fails you don’t necessarily have a claim on the owners of that company. And I would expect covid to have decimated the value of commercial real estate, particularly hotels.
- ENOTTY 6y agoThis is briefly discussed in the NYT article. Apparently some of the loans are borrowed against his personal holdings.
- cm2187 6y agoThat may be the case but I would be surprised the NYT would know, unless they have seen the terms of the loan.
- digitaltrees 6y agoNo. Recourse loans are listed on tax filings separately from non-recourse. The personal guarantee means it shows up on personal income statements. So no other records are needed.
- kthejoker2 6y agoNope, we're talking about personal loans, personally guaranteed by him. No intermediary, no holding company.
- jshaqaw 6y agoBecause it's so easy to play asset stripping games, personal guarantees are very common in the commercial real estate world.
- digitaltrees 6y agoHow can anyone seriously support him being in a position of power if this is true. The opportunity to buy that debt and call it as leverage to extract political gain is so easy and obvious. Does any of this debt trade on any market? If so a hedge fund could basically have puppet strings on the federal government.
- andrei_says_ 6y agoSimple: it is not “true” to those who support him. They are told a completely different story - one of a successful businessman with unbending will, unfairly persecuted by the media, here to manifest God’s plan. Yes, including that last one. Talk to any fundamental Christian on why.
- jmeister 6y agoHow can NYT say America was actually founded in 1619? To his base, elite east coast “Fake News” media has no credibility whatsoever, because of blatant culture-war pandering like 1619.
- twmahna 6y ago> The opportunity to buy that debt and call it as leverage to extract political gain is so easy and obvious If this happened, you don't think he'd be able to get another institution (or GOP constituent) to re-finance/backstop his debt for him? 2-300m in debt is a lot but his businesses pull in 4-500m in annual revenue. It's not a crazy debt-to-income ratio.
- refurb 6y agoWhat is his net worth? I didn't see it in the article. Whether or not his debts are an issue really depends on how much wealth he has to back it up.
- mikequinlan 6y agoThe article is based on income tax returns which only deal with income and don't show net worth.
- refurb 6y agoThen how can they claim his personal loans put him at risk? If you have $500M in loans due, but $1B in the bank, it’s not really a problem is it?
- maxerickson 6y agoIs that a net position? I am not interested enough in the further details to try to figure it out for myself, but his net position is more important than the total debt.
- softawre 6y agoNet 2.5b https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2020/09/28/yes-donald-trump-is-still-a-billionaire-that-makes-his-750-tax-payment-even-more-scandalous/#355102172885 https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2020/09/28/yes-don...
- maxerickson 6y agoThanks. So according to that analysis, Trump has plenty of debt, and also plenty of resources to manage it. Hard to value his type of commercial real estate outside of an actual sale though.
- Balgair 6y agoHe has had recent trouble selling his properties for the asking price. He put up Trump International (the DC hotel) on the market in Oct. 2019 for $500M. There were no buyers at that price before he took it off the market due to covid-19. There is no indication that he has the resources to finance the debt. Nor is there indication that he does not have those resources. We simply do not know either way until a better picture of his finances comes out. https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-organization-exploring-sale-of-marquee-washington-hotel-11572019874 https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-organization-exploring-sa...
- softawre 6y agoBut he has 3.5b in assets. So that gives him about a 2.5b net worth. He can pay it.
- digitaltrees 6y agoDoes he though? He valued one property as $200M that was then later valued at $18M. He has a well documented history of inflating value estimates. He even claimed Trump Tower had more floors than it does (something so easy to count). So I would not just take the valuations at face value.
- itbeho 6y agoGreat thread? Really? Dan Alexander is hawking an anti-Trump book released on 9/22.
- bichiliad 6y agoWhat's wrong with the thread itself?
- stjohnswarts 6y agoIt's a great thread in that it exposes his fraud as a genius business executive and transparency on potential leverage that foreign entities use to gain even more control over him than they already have.
- TooCreative 6y agoHow does this twitter thread view work? Every tweet in this thread shows a different number of replies. But how do you see them? For example the one beginning with "7/ Then we'll consider 555 California St..." shows that it has 17 replies. Where are they? How can one read them?
- detaro 6y agoYou click on that tweet and scroll down.