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Because there is no second chance. We are not answerable to god, we will not live forever no matter what we do in life. The universe does not care whether or no

by jolux 6y ago

Because there is no second chance. We are not answerable to god, we will not live forever no matter what we do in life. The universe does not care whether or not we exist, so if we care about existing, our sole responsibility is to each other and ourselves. God will not save us, there is no salvation that we do not create.

irrational 6y ago
But, once I’m dead I don’t really care if everyone else dies 5 minutes later, do I? I’m dead and I have no way to know what happens after that point. Nothing that happens after I die has any affect on me.
- jolux 6y ago
  I think a lot of people would care if everyone they loved died five minutes after they did. Seems like a worst case scenario in fact.
  - irrational 6y ago
    Bad wording. I should’ve said 50 years or some longer time period. The point is I no longer exist so anything that happens can’t matter to me.
    - kjs3 6y ago
      My child will hopefully outlive me by several decades. My grand kids certainly could live more that 50 years beyond that. I may never know my great-grandkids, but kinda hope they won't get snuffed out arbitrarily. But fundamentally I don't think "after X years, screw humanity" is something I'll buy into.
- pojzon 6y ago
  This is the exact way of thinking that makes this world the shithole it was and still is. It’s painful to watch but I don’t expect 8billion ppl to sudenly stop being so egoistic. The world as we know it is doomed to fail, so gonna enjoy the ride while I still can.
- krcz 6y ago
  You don't care after, but you do care before you die if you know that's about to happen.
  - irrational 6y ago
    Maybe instead of 5 minutes I should’ve said 50 years. The point is, I don’t exist so I can’t care about life, the universe, or anything.
- kjs3 6y ago
  Many of us with children, family and, you know, friends care very much that life goes on after we die, regardless of our role in it.
hnracer 6y ago
Why do I have a responsibility to other people in a materialistic universe? Why shouldn't I just do what I please no matter the harm to anyone else? I've heard the usual arguments from the new atheists on this topic and have found them unpersuasive (although I am agnostic myself)
- jolux 6y ago
  It’s pretty hard to live socially without any concept of a responsibility to other people, and I think you would find yourself alone pretty fast. Of course if you didn’t care, there are a lot of other answers to why you should strive not to harm others but ultimately if it’s the thing you most want to do and you don’t care about the consequences that’s not really different whether there’s a god or not, is it?
  - hnracer 6y ago
    Yes let's suppose I'm a psychopath who is purely interested in self-maximization. I have an opportunity to steal money without getting caught. Why wouldn't I do it? If there's a hell then sure I can understand (it would become self maximizing to be legitimately good), otherwise why wouldn't I? I can feign responsibility and make the right moves to get want I want. Again, I can be ruthlessly self-maximizing.
    - tux1968 6y ago
      Yes, a psychopath is just being true to his nature in that case. There's no "responsibility" to other people, just actions and consequences. Those of our ancestors who had a bond with their tribe, and took care of each other, did better and reproduced more than the selfish loners. And most of us are left with those successful strategies baked into us. You're free to choose a different path (if it is even a choice), and there will be no comic-book judgement day... but if the past is anything to go by, it's often a losing strategy. It might not be as clean a getaway as you hoped.
      - hnracer 6y ago
hudon 6y ago
> if we care about existing, our sole responsibility is to each other and ourselves The conclusion does not derive from the premise... I can care about existing in a hedonistic way and then responsibility in no way derives from my caring about existing. I’ll just do whatever I want to do and get the most pleasure possible while I exist, with nary a worry. Unless you mean “we” as in “all of humanity” and “existing” as in “humanity surviving”, but then I don’t see why we should assume this premise to hold. Most people don’t have the energy to care about the survival of their entire species, there are enough problems to deal with in an individual’s life.
- jolux 6y ago
  I did mean the survival of the species. I’m saying we are required to care about these things if we want to survive as a species. I’m not personally certain that we will, because as you said most individuals will have a hard time caring about it.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]

by jolux 6y ago

irrational 6y ago

But, once I’m dead I don’t really care if everyone else dies 5 minutes later, do I? I’m dead and I have no way to know what happens after that point. Nothing that happens after I die has any affect on me.

jolux 6y ago
I think a lot of people would care if everyone they loved died five minutes after they did. Seems like a worst case scenario in fact.
- irrational 6y ago
  Bad wording. I should’ve said 50 years or some longer time period. The point is I no longer exist so anything that happens can’t matter to me.
  - kjs3 6y ago
    My child will hopefully outlive me by several decades. My grand kids certainly could live more that 50 years beyond that. I may never know my great-grandkids, but kinda hope they won't get snuffed out arbitrarily. But fundamentally I don't think "after X years, screw humanity" is something I'll buy into.
pojzon 6y ago
This is the exact way of thinking that makes this world the shithole it was and still is. It’s painful to watch but I don’t expect 8billion ppl to sudenly stop being so egoistic. The world as we know it is doomed to fail, so gonna enjoy the ride while I still can.
krcz 6y ago
You don't care after, but you do care before you die if you know that's about to happen.
- irrational 6y ago
  Maybe instead of 5 minutes I should’ve said 50 years. The point is, I don’t exist so I can’t care about life, the universe, or anything.
kjs3 6y ago
Many of us with children, family and, you know, friends care very much that life goes on after we die, regardless of our role in it.

hnracer 6y ago

Why do I have a responsibility to other people in a materialistic universe? Why shouldn't I just do what I please no matter the harm to anyone else? I've heard the usual arguments from the new atheists on this topic and have found them unpersuasive (although I am agnostic myself)

jolux 6y ago
It’s pretty hard to live socially without any concept of a responsibility to other people, and I think you would find yourself alone pretty fast. Of course if you didn’t care, there are a lot of other answers to why you should strive not to harm others but ultimately if it’s the thing you most want to do and you don’t care about the consequences that’s not really different whether there’s a god or not, is it?
- hnracer 6y ago
  Yes let's suppose I'm a psychopath who is purely interested in self-maximization. I have an opportunity to steal money without getting caught. Why wouldn't I do it? If there's a hell then sure I can understand (it would become self maximizing to be legitimately good), otherwise why wouldn't I? I can feign responsibility and make the right moves to get want I want. Again, I can be ruthlessly self-maximizing.
  - tux1968 6y ago
    Yes, a psychopath is just being true to his nature in that case. There's no "responsibility" to other people, just actions and consequences. Those of our ancestors who had a bond with their tribe, and took care of each other, did better and reproduced more than the selfish loners. And most of us are left with those successful strategies baked into us. You're free to choose a different path (if it is even a choice), and there will be no comic-book judgement day... but if the past is anything to go by, it's often a losing strategy. It might not be as clean a getaway as you hoped.
    - hnracer 6y ago

hudon 6y ago

> if we care about existing, our sole responsibility is to each other and ourselves The conclusion does not derive from the premise... I can care about existing in a hedonistic way and then responsibility in no way derives from my caring about existing. I’ll just do whatever I want to do and get the most pleasure possible while I exist, with nary a worry. Unless you mean “we” as in “all of humanity” and “existing” as in “humanity surviving”, but then I don’t see why we should assume this premise to hold. Most people don’t have the energy to care about the survival of their entire species, there are enough problems to deal with in an individual’s life.

jolux 6y ago
I did mean the survival of the species. I’m saying we are required to care about these things if we want to survive as a species. I’m not personally certain that we will, because as you said most individuals will have a hard time caring about it.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]