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> There are huge opportunities that emerge from pushing yourself to explore new paradigms and domains. What are those opportunities? As a Rubyist, to me it mak

> There are huge opportunities that emerge from pushing yourself to explore new paradigms and domains. What are those opportunities? As a Rubyist, to me it makes more sense to become really good in Ruby. As I get older and more expensive, I need to be better than the 3 year experience 26 year old colleague. And if not better at least not noticeably worse. Learning Elixir, Go, Haskell or you name it isn't gonna help me. Not in intellectual terms and not in practical terms. Also there are so many other worthy things a person can do with his time other than learning a new programming language (both within programming and outside programming), we shouldn't judge people by their passion or lack of passion for learning new languages.

mumblemumble 6y ago
I won't speak to opportunities; I agree with you that there's a lot to be said for specialization. But, to the point about getting older: There's a fair amount of evidence that learning new, challenging (as in, outside your comfort zone) things is a big part of maintaining your mental acuity as you age. Doing crosswords is good for your brain, but only if you're relatively new to them. If you've been an avid crossword puzzler for decades, not so much. Learning a new natural language is another example of something that is supposedly good for keeping the creative juices flowing. I wouldn't be surprised if challenging oneself with a new programming paradigm behaves similarly. Which would mean that learning Haskell might make you a better Rubyist, not because (as people often like to say) Haskell teaches you specific things that you can't learn while using Ruby, but because the mental challenge of learning to work with such a drastically different programming language just generally helps keep you sharp. That said, I would not go so far as to speculate that this effect is any greater for learning a programming language than it is for learning Esperanto. Just pick the one that sounds more fun.
mattgreenrocks 6y ago
> As a Rubyist Are you a Rubyist, or a developer? > As I get older and more expensive, I need to be better than the 3 year experience 26 year old colleague. And if not better at least not noticeably worse. Yeah, I had this line of thinking. I don't recommend it. I eventually realized I don't want to play the same game as people who are willing to throw away more than I am. Specifically, I don't want to be in positions that companies would be asking those types of questions. Younger devs will work longer, not have families, work for cheaper, and be more compliant. So I decided I'd focus my career in the following way: no more web dev. I chose compilers and systems programming to self-study. It's been fantastic. Along the way, I learned Haskell and Rust, contributing a bit to both communities, and having a lot of fun. Eventually, I started finding my way towards seeing more jobs that were in my wheelhouse, and landing some. > there are so many other worthy things a person can do with his time other than learning a new programming language (both within programming and outside programming), we shouldn't judge people by their passion or lack of passion for learning new languages. Agree. But if you want to pivot your career, don't wait for your employer to sponsor you in doing so.
- joelbluminator 6y ago
  > Younger devs will work longer, not have families I work in a country where work hours are 8.5 hours (the half hour is for lunch). Period. If you consistently do more than that you'd be seen as someone who can't get his work done in time. So it's just not culturally encouraged to do that. I come from a much more capitalistic society originally, so I know first hand these companies/societies you speak of exist, and I'm hesitant to ever go back also because of this issue. The sad thing is I know for sure I write shit code after 8 hours, and I'm sure it's true for most people. So while some startups can churn out young devs like that and get away with it, I'm sure there are businesses that actually care about code quality. Even in the most capitalistic of societies. But we stray: within web dev, the question is how can I be more valuable to a Ruby team - as someone who did 3 years python, 3 years php and 3 years elixir or as someone who did 9 years Ruby?
  - mattgreenrocks 6y ago
    > within web dev, the question is how can I be more valuable to a Ruby team - as someone who did 3 years python, 3 years php and 3 years elixir or as someone who did 9 years Ruby? As your career progress, your value is less the volume of code produced and more how you improve those around you, be it via processes, mentoring, abstractions, and guidance.
  - jgilias 6y ago
    That's a bit of a strawman though. My initial premise was that learning on the side something orthogonal to what you use daily is beneficial to ones capabilities in general. Orthogonal being key here.

mumblemumble 6y ago

I won't speak to opportunities; I agree with you that there's a lot to be said for specialization. But, to the point about getting older: There's a fair amount of evidence that learning new, challenging (as in, outside your comfort zone) things is a big part of maintaining your mental acuity as you age. Doing crosswords is good for your brain, but only if you're relatively new to them. If you've been an avid crossword puzzler for decades, not so much. Learning a new natural language is another example of something that is supposedly good for keeping the creative juices flowing. I wouldn't be surprised if challenging oneself with a new programming paradigm behaves similarly. Which would mean that learning Haskell might make you a better Rubyist, not because (as people often like to say) Haskell teaches you specific things that you can't learn while using Ruby, but because the mental challenge of learning to work with such a drastically different programming language just generally helps keep you sharp. That said, I would not go so far as to speculate that this effect is any greater for learning a programming language than it is for learning Esperanto. Just pick the one that sounds more fun.

mattgreenrocks 6y ago

> As a Rubyist Are you a Rubyist, or a developer? > As I get older and more expensive, I need to be better than the 3 year experience 26 year old colleague. And if not better at least not noticeably worse. Yeah, I had this line of thinking. I don't recommend it. I eventually realized I don't want to play the same game as people who are willing to throw away more than I am. Specifically, I don't want to be in positions that companies would be asking those types of questions. Younger devs will work longer, not have families, work for cheaper, and be more compliant. So I decided I'd focus my career in the following way: no more web dev. I chose compilers and systems programming to self-study. It's been fantastic. Along the way, I learned Haskell and Rust, contributing a bit to both communities, and having a lot of fun. Eventually, I started finding my way towards seeing more jobs that were in my wheelhouse, and landing some. > there are so many other worthy things a person can do with his time other than learning a new programming language (both within programming and outside programming), we shouldn't judge people by their passion or lack of passion for learning new languages. Agree. But if you want to pivot your career, don't wait for your employer to sponsor you in doing so.

joelbluminator 6y ago
> Younger devs will work longer, not have families I work in a country where work hours are 8.5 hours (the half hour is for lunch). Period. If you consistently do more than that you'd be seen as someone who can't get his work done in time. So it's just not culturally encouraged to do that. I come from a much more capitalistic society originally, so I know first hand these companies/societies you speak of exist, and I'm hesitant to ever go back also because of this issue. The sad thing is I know for sure I write shit code after 8 hours, and I'm sure it's true for most people. So while some startups can churn out young devs like that and get away with it, I'm sure there are businesses that actually care about code quality. Even in the most capitalistic of societies. But we stray: within web dev, the question is how can I be more valuable to a Ruby team - as someone who did 3 years python, 3 years php and 3 years elixir or as someone who did 9 years Ruby?
- mattgreenrocks 6y ago
  > within web dev, the question is how can I be more valuable to a Ruby team - as someone who did 3 years python, 3 years php and 3 years elixir or as someone who did 9 years Ruby? As your career progress, your value is less the volume of code produced and more how you improve those around you, be it via processes, mentoring, abstractions, and guidance.
- jgilias 6y ago
  That's a bit of a strawman though. My initial premise was that learning on the side something orthogonal to what you use daily is beneficial to ones capabilities in general. Orthogonal being key here.