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These kinds of posts always pop up in a row, like a volley of arrows. Bemoaning education as failing students, falling in value, rising in cost, etc etc etc. W

by shii 16y ago

These kinds of posts always pop up in a row, like a volley of arrows. Bemoaning education as failing students, falling in value, rising in cost, etc etc etc. What actual concrete alternatives are there for alarmed students (such as myself) that read these types of posts, jump through all the hoops, and still face a massive bill from Podunk U to get a BS or BA? Most of you all here have already gone through the rites and work at cushy tech or office jobs, and a few rebels with their own startups. What do you say to an incoming college freshman who isn't sure if he sees the light at the end of the tunnel or a $40K+ train barreling at him? It's nice to say work hard, network, go to a cheap state school, go to a 2 year community college first then transfer, etc...but this all seems to point a really broken system with little to no solutions in sight for those actively under the guillotine of crushing debt. Instead of pontificating, does anyone have actionable tips or advice?

arohner 16y ago
The current system is completely broken for people who don't get useful degrees, but only annoying for people who do get useful degrees. 1) Have a plan. Go into college with a measurable goal. Say "I'm going to get a degree in X, because that will help me get into my desired profession". Don't say "I'm going to go to become a well rounded person". 2) Get a useful degree. Generally, a useful degree is something that is technical, pays well after school, and doesn't require a masters / pHD. Things like Engineering, CS, Physics. Law and Medicine used to be good career paths, but I wouldn't recommend them anymore. 3) Don't assume the school will teach you everything you need to know. Instead, treat it as one source of knowledge among many. Learn about your major outside of school. Build things on your own. Get internships. Test out of easy classes. Intentionally take harder classes, or classes that would be harder to learn on your own after you've graduated.
- billswift 16y ago
  As an extension of your number three: Take all the math and linguistics courses you can without shorting your major - these are among the most generally useful and hardest to learn on your own courses. By linguistics, I mean phonology, syntax, and semantics, our knowledge of how language works; languages are also well worth learning, but Berlitz and Pimsleur are at least as good as university courses at teaching them. Also take all the lab courses associated with your major - they will give you more tacit knowledge, knowledge of how things actually work, than theory courses. Note, I'm mostly self-taught (including calculus), these are the kind of things I wish I had learned in school when I was there.
- foamdino 16y ago
  First define useful? I have an undergrad technical degree and yes it was useful to me. I do however have an appreciation of the arts and, if time and funds permitted, would gladly study multiple undergrad and masters courses in philosophy, economics (art or science, depends on where you go), history and linguistics. There is a technical snobbery that demeans all 'art' as useless and elevates all technical degrees to, IMO, an unworthy height. Your definition of useful seems to be 'produces economic value to the graduate'. Another person could have a very different definition of useful. Taking the point back on-topic, if your view of education is something that allows you to earn more during your working life, then I can understand some people questioning it. I enjoy learning for its own sake, not for some bauble held out in front of me - maybe that's because I'm wealthy enough (relatively speaking) to have been able to study what I like without worrying about practical issues. I live in a country where people see education (typically business degrees and technical subjects) as a means to an end - quite rightly as often their families have sold everything they own to be able to afford to send one child to get a 'good education' and then expect that child to be able to support the family in the future. I teach undergrad IT, so I do have a dog in this particular 'education isn't worth it' fight. /rant off
  - arohner 16y ago
    In no way did I imply all art is useless. What I did strongly imply is that spending $50-100k and four years of your life is a big decision. Please, get a degree in whatever you like, but realize that you are probably in the minority for being able to receive education "for fun". Most people do it for an improvement in their earnings. The issue isn't "my" view of education, but the mainstream view, pushed by the US gov't and all universities. I'm sick of the lie that a degree in Russian Lit or Communications will somehow prepare you for the workplace, or provide skills that will help you earn more. I'm sick of people being told to get a degree in whatever strikes their fancy, while strongly implying that any degree is good for them.
seriesoftubes 16y ago
You asked a great question. I wish I had a better answer for you, but that's one big and obvious limitation of the internet- I can only give general advice to you because I hardly know anything about you. My three short bits of general advice to anyone in your stage of life are: 1) Relax and enjoy life 2) Try to differentiate yourself in a positive light as much as possible (both on and off paper). 3) Keep on seeking the answers like you are doing right now. You can never get what you don't ask for. Don't limit yourself by not asking for things.

by shii 16y ago

arohner 16y ago

The current system is completely broken for people who don't get useful degrees, but only annoying for people who do get useful degrees. 1) Have a plan. Go into college with a measurable goal. Say "I'm going to get a degree in X, because that will help me get into my desired profession". Don't say "I'm going to go to become a well rounded person". 2) Get a useful degree. Generally, a useful degree is something that is technical, pays well after school, and doesn't require a masters / pHD. Things like Engineering, CS, Physics. Law and Medicine used to be good career paths, but I wouldn't recommend them anymore. 3) Don't assume the school will teach you everything you need to know. Instead, treat it as one source of knowledge among many. Learn about your major outside of school. Build things on your own. Get internships. Test out of easy classes. Intentionally take harder classes, or classes that would be harder to learn on your own after you've graduated.

billswift 16y ago
As an extension of your number three: Take all the math and linguistics courses you can without shorting your major - these are among the most generally useful and hardest to learn on your own courses. By linguistics, I mean phonology, syntax, and semantics, our knowledge of how language works; languages are also well worth learning, but Berlitz and Pimsleur are at least as good as university courses at teaching them. Also take all the lab courses associated with your major - they will give you more tacit knowledge, knowledge of how things actually work, than theory courses. Note, I'm mostly self-taught (including calculus), these are the kind of things I wish I had learned in school when I was there.
foamdino 16y ago
First define useful? I have an undergrad technical degree and yes it was useful to me. I do however have an appreciation of the arts and, if time and funds permitted, would gladly study multiple undergrad and masters courses in philosophy, economics (art or science, depends on where you go), history and linguistics. There is a technical snobbery that demeans all 'art' as useless and elevates all technical degrees to, IMO, an unworthy height. Your definition of useful seems to be 'produces economic value to the graduate'. Another person could have a very different definition of useful. Taking the point back on-topic, if your view of education is something that allows you to earn more during your working life, then I can understand some people questioning it. I enjoy learning for its own sake, not for some bauble held out in front of me - maybe that's because I'm wealthy enough (relatively speaking) to have been able to study what I like without worrying about practical issues. I live in a country where people see education (typically business degrees and technical subjects) as a means to an end - quite rightly as often their families have sold everything they own to be able to afford to send one child to get a 'good education' and then expect that child to be able to support the family in the future. I teach undergrad IT, so I do have a dog in this particular 'education isn't worth it' fight. /rant off
- arohner 16y ago
  In no way did I imply all art is useless. What I did strongly imply is that spending $50-100k and four years of your life is a big decision. Please, get a degree in whatever you like, but realize that you are probably in the minority for being able to receive education "for fun". Most people do it for an improvement in their earnings. The issue isn't "my" view of education, but the mainstream view, pushed by the US gov't and all universities. I'm sick of the lie that a degree in Russian Lit or Communications will somehow prepare you for the workplace, or provide skills that will help you earn more. I'm sick of people being told to get a degree in whatever strikes their fancy, while strongly implying that any degree is good for them.

seriesoftubes 16y ago

You asked a great question. I wish I had a better answer for you, but that's one big and obvious limitation of the internet- I can only give general advice to you because I hardly know anything about you. My three short bits of general advice to anyone in your stage of life are: 1) Relax and enjoy life 2) Try to differentiate yourself in a positive light as much as possible (both on and off paper). 3) Keep on seeking the answers like you are doing right now. You can never get what you don't ask for. Don't limit yourself by not asking for things.