3 ms·

I am a big proponent of public spaces, and I definitely agree we should expand them, make them more accessible, and publicize and fund them better... so I agree

by slx26 6y ago

I am a big proponent of public spaces, and I definitely agree we should expand them, make them more accessible, and publicize and fund them better... so I agree with most of your comment. But still, I don't agree that "Without the mythology being railed against in this article, we wouldn't have the dedicated librarian staff that make the system work". This only slows the death of the system, it doesn't fix it. Maybe if it was completely gone we would see more clearly how necessary it is. But in the current state, and except in some big cities like the example you cite, the system doesn't work. I think there's too much symbolism, the "book" is a symbol with too much weight for culture, and defending that symbolism (this is the kind of culture I see from librarians most often, though that might also be mediatized), only distances the debate from the really important issues. Sometimes that's accidentally obviated by those that are too close to the problem, but I really believe we are lacking truly conscious debate in this area. The most important institution is not the library, it is the public space. I think this is a more sensible way to frame and try to communicate the problem.

breather 6y ago
> "The most important institution is not the library, it is the public space." That's interesting. The only public space I actually feel comfortable in is the library. The public square in front of city hall is patrolled by police, I wouldn't dare spend time there having real discussions. All the malls are actually private spaces, coffee shops as well. The universities, likewise, are 'private property' and unsuited to real discussion. Public parks stand out as great public spaces, but they don't have bathrooms or computers. Libraries are places you can actually get some work done. > "Maybe if it was completely gone we would see more clearly how necessary it is." Our society would just degrade and decay. Imagine trying to found a library today! > "except in some big cities like the example you cite, the system doesn't work" I'm curious about what would work. What does a reimagined library look like?
- slx26 6y ago
  > public square in front of city hall is patrolled by police Yeah, I wrote this in a comment a couple days ago: "public spaces are treated like private spaces by local governments: "we don't want problems in our land" is the default attitude". Improving public spaces means solving these kinds of problems. Streets are not accessible to social interaction. As Ivan Illich wrote: "police protection [is mistaken] for safety, military poise for national security [...]". So yes, everything is a private space, very disappointingly. Then we complain about kids getting addicted to videogames. What else did we leave to them? If we take away public spaces and try to structure all their time with extracurricular activities and whatever. Parks are nice to walk through, but rarely stay and do something. You usually want a roof, power sockets and light, somewhere decent to sit, etc. But we are sadly more into hostile architecture [0]. About reimagined libraries... the combination of bookshelves, the layout of the corridors and the silence really create a mystical space, something quite unique. Like the architecture of some cathedrals. I'm very in favor of unique spaces, and we shouldn't understimate silence either. Libraries can easily inspire us and give us this feeling that there are so many unexplored paths that we can explore... it's a whole adventure, if you are into that kind of adventures. But there are a million other options to create new unique spaces and adventures, I don't think we need to reimagine libraries to monopolize all those possibilities. Books, corridors and silence seem just fine to me for libraries. We can put computers and internet access somewhere else. That's why I think it's interesting to just focus on public spaces. People is very different and they will enjoy very different spaces. For example, a library for kids could be completely different to a library for adults. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostile_architecture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostile_architecture

by slx26 6y ago

breather 6y ago

> "The most important institution is not the library, it is the public space." That's interesting. The only public space I actually feel comfortable in is the library. The public square in front of city hall is patrolled by police, I wouldn't dare spend time there having real discussions. All the malls are actually private spaces, coffee shops as well. The universities, likewise, are 'private property' and unsuited to real discussion. Public parks stand out as great public spaces, but they don't have bathrooms or computers. Libraries are places you can actually get some work done. > "Maybe if it was completely gone we would see more clearly how necessary it is." Our society would just degrade and decay. Imagine trying to found a library today! > "except in some big cities like the example you cite, the system doesn't work" I'm curious about what would work. What does a reimagined library look like?

slx26 6y ago
> public square in front of city hall is patrolled by police Yeah, I wrote this in a comment a couple days ago: "public spaces are treated like private spaces by local governments: "we don't want problems in our land" is the default attitude". Improving public spaces means solving these kinds of problems. Streets are not accessible to social interaction. As Ivan Illich wrote: "police protection [is mistaken] for safety, military poise for national security [...]". So yes, everything is a private space, very disappointingly. Then we complain about kids getting addicted to videogames. What else did we leave to them? If we take away public spaces and try to structure all their time with extracurricular activities and whatever. Parks are nice to walk through, but rarely stay and do something. You usually want a roof, power sockets and light, somewhere decent to sit, etc. But we are sadly more into hostile architecture [0]. About reimagined libraries... the combination of bookshelves, the layout of the corridors and the silence really create a mystical space, something quite unique. Like the architecture of some cathedrals. I'm very in favor of unique spaces, and we shouldn't understimate silence either. Libraries can easily inspire us and give us this feeling that there are so many unexplored paths that we can explore... it's a whole adventure, if you are into that kind of adventures. But there are a million other options to create new unique spaces and adventures, I don't think we need to reimagine libraries to monopolize all those possibilities. Books, corridors and silence seem just fine to me for libraries. We can put computers and internet access somewhere else. That's why I think it's interesting to just focus on public spaces. People is very different and they will enjoy very different spaces. For example, a library for kids could be completely different to a library for adults. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostile_architecture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostile_architecture