4 ms·

actually, for tourist visa, you at least need a somewhat filled bankaccount. the south american or russian nomad might not be a multi-millionaire in the US, but

by fock 6y ago

actually, for tourist visa, you at least need a somewhat filled bankaccount. the south american or russian nomad might not be a multi-millionaire in the US, but he'll be quite rich in his/her homecountry. And no, average "3rd world remote work" lined up likely won't cut it, because I think most countries want you to be able to support yourself for the duration of the visa (and I think "I'm a nomad, the internet pays me, here's my Indian LLC" isn't what officials want to hear). Then, even just the fees for one VISA are likely a months income for most people from countries with a bad passport... Given that: with careful planning and a good passport you can certainly do things like this on a budget, given that most countries of this world only cost you a tiny fraction of living in population centers of Europe or North American coasts.

owenversteeg 6y ago
Did you mean to reply to me, or someone else? I didn't even mention tourist visas - just the vast areas that many people with crappy passports can travel with no visas involved whatsoever. I also didn't mention remote work at all. Now, your comment is also completely wrong. "Visa fees are likely a month's income" is ridiculous, unless you're going to cherry pick the most extreme examples. Russian average salary is around 50k rub/mo, Schengen visa fees around 3k rub for Russians. You wanna pick an expensive country, like the US? OK, a 3 year multi entry visa costs 12k rub. Saying you need a "filled bankaccount" and to be "quite rich" in your home country is also ridiculous, the guideline on Schengen visas to France is min. 32 euros a day, so you can stay for around 20 days by having about one month's average Russian salary in your bank account. Finally, self employed people that meet the requirements do just fine in getting Schengen visas. I've had many stay with me and they all said it wasn't too tough. Unfortunately many people just don't prepare for the application properly, don't do their research, and are denied. While I agree that the process is unnecessarily opaque and confusing (and does deny people randomly at times), most people who prepare properly and fill out the application correctly will get their visa.
- fock 6y ago
  > just the vast areas that many people with crappy passports can travel with no visas involved whatsoever. Yeah, they can, but somehow they don't which might be related that most of these vast areas are empty (especially Russia) or lack any infrastructure making the digital nomad-lifestyle so "nice" (or even basic personal security for large parts of Africa). Also I'm not sure, how they intend to travel to e.g. Europe: a remote-work "I'm a digital nomad"-setup won't cut it, so they have to have cash for their stay (and a plan, where to stay?!). > "Visa fees are likely a month's income" is ridiculous, unless you're going to cherry pick the most extreme examples. Russian average salary is around 50k rub/mo, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income#/media/File:Countries_by_gross_median_per-capita_income_in_Int$_(PPP).png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income#/media/File:Coun... now guess who's cherry-picking. > so you can stay for around 20 days by having about one month's average Russian salary in your bank account. I don't know how many people in the US/... have about a month of the average US/... salary in their bank account. My guess: not so many and the ones (like the sw-eng. HN-crowd) can be considered "quite rich" by all means. Also I thought that digital nomadism/this sort of traveling entailed doing it more than half a month at a time. While this is certainly possible, having a filled bankaccount (with some multiples of your month gross income) seems to be a general requirement. I doubt you get a visa for France having "no job" and 600€s. Paying a human trafficker is easily thrice this amount and seems to be in high-demand for a lot of the "bad passport"-kind of countries... So no, this is not something anybody can do, but just a rich kid's hobby.
  - owenversteeg 6y ago
    ... They don't? What on earth do you mean? Enormous amounts of people travel their own regions. What planet do you live on? Go hang out in a CIS platzkart, a budget Asian bus... You will encounter them - no joke - by the millions. And if you think Russia or the CIS countries are "empty", you're dreaming. As someone who has traveled to tons of places, I consider that region to have some of the coolest travel destinations no matter what you're interested in. From Moscow to Kamchatka to the shores of Georgia, there's really something for everyone. > and a plan, where to stay? ... What? How would that prevent someone from going somewhere? So many options, from cancellable hotel reservations to Couchsurfing hosts to hostels... If you can't figure that out you really should not be going to a foreign country. I am not sure what to make of your Wikipedia link. If you meant to imply that Russia is a richer-than-average country, well, the numbers simply do not bear that out (Russia sits about a third lower than the global median income.) > I don't know how many people in the US have about a month of the average US salary in their bank account Thankfully that's easy to look up! The average American family has around $40,000 in liquid checking and savings according to the latest US Federal Reserve Survey of Consumer Finances, so no prob to that one. (If you're wondering how that works with the terrible Twitter statistic of most Americans not having $400, well, turns out that's a bastardization of a question asking the payment method for a $400 expense. The number that actually can't afford a surprise $400 is 14%; furthermore, keep in mind the survey includes teenagers, people on disability etc. Regarding your human trafficking comment, those fleeing conflict are in an unusual situation globally. Yes, someone applying for a visa with a Yemeni passport will have to meet stronger requirements than someone with an Indian, Chinese or Russian passport. That's the unfortunate reality of the situation. For most people, that's not a consideration. If you have never applied for a visa, you may also find it useful to know that many things are taken into account. Your bank balance is more of a box to check and a fairly small part of the equation, all things considered. >So no, this is not something anybody can do, but just a rich kid's hobby. I like how this is an opinion you've formed by writing weird and incorrect comments on HN. I have had tens of Couchsurfing guests from very poor places. I have had guests who hitchhiked from Turkey to Amsterdam, eating donated bread and peanut butter. I have had guests that flew from Russia on a $30 flight, and that was their largest expense. It is extremely possible to travel in this way if you are poor, and even if your passport sucks. More difficult? Sure. Possible? Absolutely. If you would like to meet some of this army of hyper-budget travelers, go spend some time where they hang out. Budget hostels, Flixbuses, the 24hr McDonald's when they need a spot to charge their phone. They exist, and they exist in fairly large numbers. You'd be surprised. Finally, I'm not sure if not reading the comment you're replying to is just something you do, but I would recommend replying appropriately. Again, I'm not talking about any sort of "digital nomadism". What I'm talking about is distinctly different and separate.

by fock 6y ago

owenversteeg 6y ago

Did you mean to reply to me, or someone else? I didn't even mention tourist visas - just the vast areas that many people with crappy passports can travel with no visas involved whatsoever. I also didn't mention remote work at all. Now, your comment is also completely wrong. "Visa fees are likely a month's income" is ridiculous, unless you're going to cherry pick the most extreme examples. Russian average salary is around 50k rub/mo, Schengen visa fees around 3k rub for Russians. You wanna pick an expensive country, like the US? OK, a 3 year multi entry visa costs 12k rub. Saying you need a "filled bankaccount" and to be "quite rich" in your home country is also ridiculous, the guideline on Schengen visas to France is min. 32 euros a day, so you can stay for around 20 days by having about one month's average Russian salary in your bank account. Finally, self employed people that meet the requirements do just fine in getting Schengen visas. I've had many stay with me and they all said it wasn't too tough. Unfortunately many people just don't prepare for the application properly, don't do their research, and are denied. While I agree that the process is unnecessarily opaque and confusing (and does deny people randomly at times), most people who prepare properly and fill out the application correctly will get their visa.

fock 6y ago
> just the vast areas that many people with crappy passports can travel with no visas involved whatsoever. Yeah, they can, but somehow they don't which might be related that most of these vast areas are empty (especially Russia) or lack any infrastructure making the digital nomad-lifestyle so "nice" (or even basic personal security for large parts of Africa). Also I'm not sure, how they intend to travel to e.g. Europe: a remote-work "I'm a digital nomad"-setup won't cut it, so they have to have cash for their stay (and a plan, where to stay?!). > "Visa fees are likely a month's income" is ridiculous, unless you're going to cherry pick the most extreme examples. Russian average salary is around 50k rub/mo, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income#/media/File:Countries_by_gross_median_per-capita_income_in_Int$_(PPP).png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income#/media/File:Coun... now guess who's cherry-picking. > so you can stay for around 20 days by having about one month's average Russian salary in your bank account. I don't know how many people in the US/... have about a month of the average US/... salary in their bank account. My guess: not so many and the ones (like the sw-eng. HN-crowd) can be considered "quite rich" by all means. Also I thought that digital nomadism/this sort of traveling entailed doing it more than half a month at a time. While this is certainly possible, having a filled bankaccount (with some multiples of your month gross income) seems to be a general requirement. I doubt you get a visa for France having "no job" and 600€s. Paying a human trafficker is easily thrice this amount and seems to be in high-demand for a lot of the "bad passport"-kind of countries... So no, this is not something anybody can do, but just a rich kid's hobby.
- owenversteeg 6y ago
  ... They don't? What on earth do you mean? Enormous amounts of people travel their own regions. What planet do you live on? Go hang out in a CIS platzkart, a budget Asian bus... You will encounter them - no joke - by the millions. And if you think Russia or the CIS countries are "empty", you're dreaming. As someone who has traveled to tons of places, I consider that region to have some of the coolest travel destinations no matter what you're interested in. From Moscow to Kamchatka to the shores of Georgia, there's really something for everyone. > and a plan, where to stay? ... What? How would that prevent someone from going somewhere? So many options, from cancellable hotel reservations to Couchsurfing hosts to hostels... If you can't figure that out you really should not be going to a foreign country. I am not sure what to make of your Wikipedia link. If you meant to imply that Russia is a richer-than-average country, well, the numbers simply do not bear that out (Russia sits about a third lower than the global median income.) > I don't know how many people in the US have about a month of the average US salary in their bank account Thankfully that's easy to look up! The average American family has around $40,000 in liquid checking and savings according to the latest US Federal Reserve Survey of Consumer Finances, so no prob to that one. (If you're wondering how that works with the terrible Twitter statistic of most Americans not having $400, well, turns out that's a bastardization of a question asking the payment method for a $400 expense. The number that actually can't afford a surprise $400 is 14%; furthermore, keep in mind the survey includes teenagers, people on disability etc. Regarding your human trafficking comment, those fleeing conflict are in an unusual situation globally. Yes, someone applying for a visa with a Yemeni passport will have to meet stronger requirements than someone with an Indian, Chinese or Russian passport. That's the unfortunate reality of the situation. For most people, that's not a consideration. If you have never applied for a visa, you may also find it useful to know that many things are taken into account. Your bank balance is more of a box to check and a fairly small part of the equation, all things considered. >So no, this is not something anybody can do, but just a rich kid's hobby. I like how this is an opinion you've formed by writing weird and incorrect comments on HN. I have had tens of Couchsurfing guests from very poor places. I have had guests who hitchhiked from Turkey to Amsterdam, eating donated bread and peanut butter. I have had guests that flew from Russia on a $30 flight, and that was their largest expense. It is extremely possible to travel in this way if you are poor, and even if your passport sucks. More difficult? Sure. Possible? Absolutely. If you would like to meet some of this army of hyper-budget travelers, go spend some time where they hang out. Budget hostels, Flixbuses, the 24hr McDonald's when they need a spot to charge their phone. They exist, and they exist in fairly large numbers. You'd be surprised. Finally, I'm not sure if not reading the comment you're replying to is just something you do, but I would recommend replying appropriately. Again, I'm not talking about any sort of "digital nomadism". What I'm talking about is distinctly different and separate.