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American sued in Thailand over negative Tripadvisor review

mumblerino 6y ago
What a ridiculous situation. The guy was arrested and brought to the minuscole island because of a defamation suit. Imagine that. The article is quite light on details, so here’s another one that also links to the full response by the hotel owners: https://mothership.sg/2020/09/sea-view-resort-defamation-lawsuit/ https://mothership.sg/2020/09/sea-view-resort-defamation-law...
- leaveyou 6y ago
  Ridiculous to you.. not so ridiculous to me. Lies can affect peoples lives & livelihood in catastrophic ways. He tried to harm some people and they asked for the protection of the law. To me there's nothing ridiculous there.
  - justinclift 6y ago
    Perhaps he was warning people about an actually bad place?
    - leaveyou 6y ago
      Perhaps you have not read enough of the available information ?
      - justinclift 6y ago
        I read the article. It sounded like he had a really bad experience at the Sea View Resort (on Wesley Barnes), so left reviews at lots of places warning people. That's literally the whole point of writing reviews. To let others know what places are good, bad, etc. Hopefully more people find out about the stupid treatment of this guy by the resort, as taking legal action against an ex-customer for giving bad reviews is far beyond reasonable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect
        listenallyall 6y ago
        This is opposite of Streisand effect. It's turning out to be terrific free publicity for this island resort with 4.5 stars on Trip Advisor, and actually portrays the resort as victim of a loser guest who was asked to pay a standard corkage fee, refused, then went off and accused the resort of slavery. I mean, just the top image on the Yahoo link, of a gorgeous beachfront, looks pretty great right now. Here's a tip, when you visit, or move to, a foreign country, expect to live by its laws, not the laws of the country you left.
        justinclift 6y ago
        > It's turning out to be terrific free publicity for this island resort ... Let me guess. They've had all of the negative reviews deleted, by threatening to put more people in jail? That's one way to do it...
        unnameduser1 6y ago
        Are you implying that the resort is suing every customer who gives negative reviews? And if so where is the proof. If not, then it’s just a silly statement made up by you.
        justinclift 6y ago
        Are you kidding? They took a customer to court after that person had a bad experience and went around telling others about it. Were the contents of the guys reviews all peaches and cream? Heck no. He comes off as a prick (my opinion). But this place, clearly has form in making threats and getting the Thai legal system involved against negative reviewers. How are we to know the resort isn't just making crap up and "abusing the system" to remove negative reviews? That could as easily be the case, and seems more likely.
        unnameduser1 6y ago
        Your assumptions are just assumptions = not backed by facts. In reality he could be Elvis born again and also to him laws would still apply. If the resort would have made up the comments they say he posted, then they would be in much more legal trouble than he is now. From statements that were posted as screenshots he might be also technically liable for violations of cybercrime act. But that hasn’t been announced or he hasn’t been charged yet for that. From where I’m standing, the guy looks like someone who went overboard to not just complain but incriminate himself. That’s what counts. Honestly, every business has customers that complain. You can’t please everyone. But if someone were to make certain statements about my business, employees etc, I would also use my legal rights to fight abuse. I have myself complained for decades very harshly about other business on social media, their own TW/FB/Google profiles and haven’t been sued by anyone. It would be interesting what the guy can state as his side of the story apart of the incriminating screenshots from online platforms. Edit: typo
    - unnameduser1 6y ago
      You apparently have not read enough about the case and make assumptions that are irrelevant
- unnameduser1 6y ago
  Yeah imagine police doing their job. The accused has to be read the charges and has the opportunity to make a formal statement. Does the size of the island matter in that legal case?
  - unnameduser1 6y ago
    Not sure why this was downvoted. Police proceedings seemed to be reasonable and if one were to trust reports about the defendants posts the charges are justified. If the defendant were in his home country he would have been arrested all the same for not following procedures and appearing when asked. Please check the whole story before you just downvote. People often criticize the police in Thailand when they are doing their job (issuing tickets, lol) and also when they aren’t doing their job (when it’s not their jurisdiction or position). Thailand is not much different than other countries and has laws that need to be followed. Many foreigners including me live in Thailand for decades and manage it just fine to not get into trouble while posting harsh negative reviews online. :)
- unnameduser1 6y ago
  Not ridiculous at all. Size of island doesn’t matter. The court is on mainland. Police station where resort filed complaint is where the guy has to go to hear the charges and to make his own statement. All ok so far. The ridiculous part is your comment about the proceeding and size of island. The charges for violations of laws don’t get smaller the smaller the island is.
msla 6y ago
> Thailand's notorious anti-defamation laws have long drawn scrutiny from human rights and press freedom groups, who say powerful players use it as a weapon to stifle free expression. > The maximum sentence is two years in prison, along with a 200,000 baht ($6,300) fine. > Earlier this year, a Thai journalist was sentenced to two years in prison for posting a tweet referencing a dispute over working conditions at a chicken farm owned by the Thammakaset company. The American is currently out on bail.
- unnameduser1 6y ago
  Not sure why you got downvoted for quoting the article. But the yahoo article is badly written, one sided and incomplete.
COVardsStayHome 6y ago
Thailand is a shithole, who would go there in the first place?
metadatabad 6y ago
I find it insulting that a manager at a resort would treat their customers this way and I hope people think twice before patronizing this establishment in future. The customer is always right.
- unnameduser1 6y ago
  Which part? The manager charging the corkage fee or taking legal action as per law? I see every day negative reviews of places in Thailand rarely heard of anyone who got sued about it. Edit: typo NB. If you don’t break the law you can leave negative reviews in Thailand
  - metadatabad 6y ago
    Taking legal action. It is so absurd that it would be comical if the poor person didn't suffer an arrest/jail. Over a fucking review.
_b8kh 6y ago
Most people here are not familiar with laws in Thailand and should not assume that every country has exactly same laws. I’m not taking a side here on purpose, because certain laws would apply to me then. a) yahoo article is biased and incomplete. Don’t take it as the truth. b) if a official report (complaint) was filed at police station then the person who complaint was about must appear at that station so they can make their own statement into same journal. c) since company is on an island it’s normal across the world that jurisdiction of that location applies. If other articles are to be believed (posted by others here already), the company had sufficient reason to proceed as they did. https://mothership.sg/2020/09/sea-view-resort-defamation-lawsuit/ https://mothership.sg/2020/09/sea-view-resort-defamation-law... It’s not likely that the guy will go to jail. Most cases are arbitrated before they go to actual trial. However if the foreigner were found to be in violation of the law he most likely won’t receive the maximum punishment. A lot depends also how he reacts at court. Could go with a slap on the wrist or much worse. Completely unrelated to this case but relevant - some companies do go overboard with defamation lawsuits but it’s quite rare actually. Lots of Thai people and foreigners write negative reviews and nothing happens at all - it’s not unheard of foreigners to go ballistic due to language and cultural difference. However also Thai customers do happen to sometimes get overboard and cause problems unnecessary - The situation is really dire on islands. I went to another this weekend and most resorts and restaurants/ pubs had shut down for good. The remaining open ones aren’t operating profitably as there is are less than 10% of regular domestic and foreign tourists there. - Lots of visitors have also less money to spend. Salaries have been reduced and many people lost jobs. Tourism sector was hit the hardest. - There is currently no way for foreign tourists to enter Thailand. But we do see Thai and foreign people traveling within the country. Not so many but also not none. I really invite everyone to get familiar with laws in Thailand and with all the details of the situation before taking sides.
- tinus_hn 6y ago
  > the person who complaint was about must appear at that station so they can make their own statement into same journal. I’m sure you can imagine this being rather difficult for a tourist who is back home on the other side of the planet.
gumby 6y ago
How is the nationality of the person being sued relevant to the situation? I, not complaining about the NH headline, but the various mentions in the article itself? I clicked because of that headline wondering why someone in America would worry about a suit filed in a different country. But it’s someone resident in Thailand.
- unnameduser1 6y ago
  Indeed. It’s clickbait by yahoo news. Poorly researched and badly written. Should be replace by the Singaporean link from commenters below.
unnameduser1 6y ago
There is more to this case. And I’m just summarizing from the statement published by the resort: - customer argued about corkage fee for beverages brought from outside. - customer left and drank beverages outside without needing to pay corkage - customer made inappropriate and defamatory comments on online platforms. - Some of the comments were taken down by the platforms as they clearly violated terms - resort management tried to contact him to resolve the matter See more: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VZCwyULmkLpZ7y5nT5wsaX0mn8waPd4H/view?usp=drivesdk https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VZCwyULmkLpZ7y5nT5wsaX0mn8w... From my own experience with complaints and the legal system a) lots of people write realistic, truthful and harsh negative reviews but don’t get sued for defamation b) one doesn’t just get dragged to court c) no matter if direct contact was attempted, if a filing is made at police station, the police call the defendant and he has to appear to get the charges read and to make a statement. d) there are usually several negotiations at police station to settle matters without having to go to court or even starting a civil or criminal proceeding e) if no agreement is reached then it becomes a real case. Also there is arbitration in civil cases f) general legal experience, not related to the case: foreigners not obeying local laws and regulations does result in a rude awakening. This is the case in any country. g) western countries specially USA have very strict local police and court rules. Try to miss a court appointment there and compare. h) technically the defendant may be charged with not just defamation but also with violating cybercrime laws (more serious) i) Not sure why this clickbait populist article is given so much attention. It’s badly researched, badly written. Classic “blogger - wannabe journalist” piece. A new low for Yahoo News.
- msh 6y ago
  No matter if there is more, how is being arrested by the police and risking 2 years in prison appropriate for libel in a review? I think it is good warning people not to be tourists in countries with draconian laws.
  - unnameduser1 6y ago
    Nobody forced the guy to come and work in Thailand. He isn’t a tourist though. If he works here he should know about the laws. Ignorance is not protection against the laws. We see the same with many foreign tourists who come and assume they can ride motorcycles without valid driving license and experience. Lots of them injured and asking for money in gofundme pages to pay hospital bills since insurance won’t cover illegal behavior. If I were to take your way of thinking then USA should be also on travel warning list. A (Canadian) foreigner living there was killed when she called police to report someone breaking into her house. However she was killed by police. I think that’s a bit more drastic than being arrested for (allegedly) not showing up in person to the police station as per report. The law is sometimes abused by people but it’s not draconian. Defendants are usually called and asked to appear at police station to make their own statement. Very civilized way of handling. Then you have most likely two times there to negotiate with the person who filed report. If nothing comes out of it, and only then, criminal charges are filed and investigated. A judge has to write an arrest warrant and does it if the defendant didn’t answer to calls by police to appear. Then and only then they can arrest him. He would have been brought to the station, went to jail for not following proceeding and he got out on bail. So far this seems like a very appropriate handling. Also I’m sure that before the case starts the judge usually ask both parties if this can be negotiated first. They have more critical cases than to deal with stupid posts on social media. If no agreement can be reached then there is a trial and it’s not guaranteed that defendant would get 2y in prison unless is unreasonable. He has a lot of influence there. His reaction will determine the proceedings and he will get a fair trial. You’re inventing things and twisting reality. People are less likely to get in trouble with the law in Thailand than to get shot by police in the US. So please let me know how reasonable it is for foreigners in USA to get killed by police when calling 911 and reporting a break in.
hechang1997 6y ago
https://en.tripadvisor.com.hk/Hotel_Review-g580110-d594766-Reviews-Sea_View_Resort_Spa_Koh_Chang-Ko_Chang_Trat_Province.html https://en.tripadvisor.com.hk/Hotel_Review-g580110-d594766-R... Here's the resort in question.
- justinclift 6y ago
  Going there, it has: Message from Tripadvisor: Due to a recent event that has attracted media attention and has caused an influx of review submissions that do not describe a first-hand experience, we have temporarily suspended publishing new reviews for this listing. If you’ve had a firsthand experience at this property, please check back soon - we’re looking forward to receiving your review! So not only are TripAdvisor not warning people of the danger of going to this place, they also blocking anyone else who does. That doesn't seem helpful at all.

What a ridiculous situation. The guy was arrested and brought to the minuscole island because of a defamation suit. Imagine that. The article is quite light on details, so here’s another one that also links to the full response by the hotel owners: https://mothership.sg/2020/09/sea-view-resort-defamation-lawsuit/ https://mothership.sg/2020/09/sea-view-resort-defamation-law...

leaveyou 6y ago
Ridiculous to you.. not so ridiculous to me. Lies can affect peoples lives & livelihood in catastrophic ways. He tried to harm some people and they asked for the protection of the law. To me there's nothing ridiculous there.
- justinclift 6y ago
  Perhaps he was warning people about an actually bad place?
  - leaveyou 6y ago
    Perhaps you have not read enough of the available information ?
    - justinclift 6y ago
      I read the article. It sounded like he had a really bad experience at the Sea View Resort (on Wesley Barnes), so left reviews at lots of places warning people. That's literally the whole point of writing reviews. To let others know what places are good, bad, etc. Hopefully more people find out about the stupid treatment of this guy by the resort, as taking legal action against an ex-customer for giving bad reviews is far beyond reasonable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect
      - listenallyall 6y ago
        This is opposite of Streisand effect. It's turning out to be terrific free publicity for this island resort with 4.5 stars on Trip Advisor, and actually portrays the resort as victim of a loser guest who was asked to pay a standard corkage fee, refused, then went off and accused the resort of slavery. I mean, just the top image on the Yahoo link, of a gorgeous beachfront, looks pretty great right now. Here's a tip, when you visit, or move to, a foreign country, expect to live by its laws, not the laws of the country you left.
        justinclift 6y ago
        > It's turning out to be terrific free publicity for this island resort ... Let me guess. They've had all of the negative reviews deleted, by threatening to put more people in jail? That's one way to do it...
        unnameduser1 6y ago
        Are you implying that the resort is suing every customer who gives negative reviews? And if so where is the proof. If not, then it’s just a silly statement made up by you.
        justinclift 6y ago
        Are you kidding? They took a customer to court after that person had a bad experience and went around telling others about it. Were the contents of the guys reviews all peaches and cream? Heck no. He comes off as a prick (my opinion). But this place, clearly has form in making threats and getting the Thai legal system involved against negative reviewers. How are we to know the resort isn't just making crap up and "abusing the system" to remove negative reviews? That could as easily be the case, and seems more likely.
        unnameduser1 6y ago
        Your assumptions are just assumptions = not backed by facts. In reality he could be Elvis born again and also to him laws would still apply. If the resort would have made up the comments they say he posted, then they would be in much more legal trouble than he is now. From statements that were posted as screenshots he might be also technically liable for violations of cybercrime act. But that hasn’t been announced or he hasn’t been charged yet for that. From where I’m standing, the guy looks like someone who went overboard to not just complain but incriminate himself. That’s what counts. Honestly, every business has customers that complain. You can’t please everyone. But if someone were to make certain statements about my business, employees etc, I would also use my legal rights to fight abuse. I have myself complained for decades very harshly about other business on social media, their own TW/FB/Google profiles and haven’t been sued by anyone. It would be interesting what the guy can state as his side of the story apart of the incriminating screenshots from online platforms. Edit: typo
  - unnameduser1 6y ago
    You apparently have not read enough about the case and make assumptions that are irrelevant
unnameduser1 6y ago
Yeah imagine police doing their job. The accused has to be read the charges and has the opportunity to make a formal statement. Does the size of the island matter in that legal case?
- unnameduser1 6y ago
  Not sure why this was downvoted. Police proceedings seemed to be reasonable and if one were to trust reports about the defendants posts the charges are justified. If the defendant were in his home country he would have been arrested all the same for not following procedures and appearing when asked. Please check the whole story before you just downvote. People often criticize the police in Thailand when they are doing their job (issuing tickets, lol) and also when they aren’t doing their job (when it’s not their jurisdiction or position). Thailand is not much different than other countries and has laws that need to be followed. Many foreigners including me live in Thailand for decades and manage it just fine to not get into trouble while posting harsh negative reviews online. :)
unnameduser1 6y ago
Not ridiculous at all. Size of island doesn’t matter. The court is on mainland. Police station where resort filed complaint is where the guy has to go to hear the charges and to make his own statement. All ok so far. The ridiculous part is your comment about the proceeding and size of island. The charges for violations of laws don’t get smaller the smaller the island is.

msla 6y ago

> Thailand's notorious anti-defamation laws have long drawn scrutiny from human rights and press freedom groups, who say powerful players use it as a weapon to stifle free expression. > The maximum sentence is two years in prison, along with a 200,000 baht ($6,300) fine. > Earlier this year, a Thai journalist was sentenced to two years in prison for posting a tweet referencing a dispute over working conditions at a chicken farm owned by the Thammakaset company. The American is currently out on bail.

unnameduser1 6y ago
Not sure why you got downvoted for quoting the article. But the yahoo article is badly written, one sided and incomplete.

COVardsStayHome 6y ago

Thailand is a shithole, who would go there in the first place?

metadatabad 6y ago

I find it insulting that a manager at a resort would treat their customers this way and I hope people think twice before patronizing this establishment in future. The customer is always right.

unnameduser1 6y ago
Which part? The manager charging the corkage fee or taking legal action as per law? I see every day negative reviews of places in Thailand rarely heard of anyone who got sued about it. Edit: typo NB. If you don’t break the law you can leave negative reviews in Thailand
- metadatabad 6y ago
  Taking legal action. It is so absurd that it would be comical if the poor person didn't suffer an arrest/jail. Over a fucking review.

_b8kh 6y ago

Most people here are not familiar with laws in Thailand and should not assume that every country has exactly same laws. I’m not taking a side here on purpose, because certain laws would apply to me then. a) yahoo article is biased and incomplete. Don’t take it as the truth. b) if a official report (complaint) was filed at police station then the person who complaint was about must appear at that station so they can make their own statement into same journal. c) since company is on an island it’s normal across the world that jurisdiction of that location applies. If other articles are to be believed (posted by others here already), the company had sufficient reason to proceed as they did. https://mothership.sg/2020/09/sea-view-resort-defamation-lawsuit/ https://mothership.sg/2020/09/sea-view-resort-defamation-law... It’s not likely that the guy will go to jail. Most cases are arbitrated before they go to actual trial. However if the foreigner were found to be in violation of the law he most likely won’t receive the maximum punishment. A lot depends also how he reacts at court. Could go with a slap on the wrist or much worse. Completely unrelated to this case but relevant - some companies do go overboard with defamation lawsuits but it’s quite rare actually. Lots of Thai people and foreigners write negative reviews and nothing happens at all - it’s not unheard of foreigners to go ballistic due to language and cultural difference. However also Thai customers do happen to sometimes get overboard and cause problems unnecessary - The situation is really dire on islands. I went to another this weekend and most resorts and restaurants/ pubs had shut down for good. The remaining open ones aren’t operating profitably as there is are less than 10% of regular domestic and foreign tourists there. - Lots of visitors have also less money to spend. Salaries have been reduced and many people lost jobs. Tourism sector was hit the hardest. - There is currently no way for foreign tourists to enter Thailand. But we do see Thai and foreign people traveling within the country. Not so many but also not none. I really invite everyone to get familiar with laws in Thailand and with all the details of the situation before taking sides.

tinus_hn 6y ago
> the person who complaint was about must appear at that station so they can make their own statement into same journal. I’m sure you can imagine this being rather difficult for a tourist who is back home on the other side of the planet.

gumby 6y ago

How is the nationality of the person being sued relevant to the situation? I, not complaining about the NH headline, but the various mentions in the article itself? I clicked because of that headline wondering why someone in America would worry about a suit filed in a different country. But it’s someone resident in Thailand.

unnameduser1 6y ago
Indeed. It’s clickbait by yahoo news. Poorly researched and badly written. Should be replace by the Singaporean link from commenters below.

unnameduser1 6y ago

There is more to this case. And I’m just summarizing from the statement published by the resort: - customer argued about corkage fee for beverages brought from outside. - customer left and drank beverages outside without needing to pay corkage - customer made inappropriate and defamatory comments on online platforms. - Some of the comments were taken down by the platforms as they clearly violated terms - resort management tried to contact him to resolve the matter See more: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VZCwyULmkLpZ7y5nT5wsaX0mn8waPd4H/view?usp=drivesdk https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VZCwyULmkLpZ7y5nT5wsaX0mn8w... From my own experience with complaints and the legal system a) lots of people write realistic, truthful and harsh negative reviews but don’t get sued for defamation b) one doesn’t just get dragged to court c) no matter if direct contact was attempted, if a filing is made at police station, the police call the defendant and he has to appear to get the charges read and to make a statement. d) there are usually several negotiations at police station to settle matters without having to go to court or even starting a civil or criminal proceeding e) if no agreement is reached then it becomes a real case. Also there is arbitration in civil cases f) general legal experience, not related to the case: foreigners not obeying local laws and regulations does result in a rude awakening. This is the case in any country. g) western countries specially USA have very strict local police and court rules. Try to miss a court appointment there and compare. h) technically the defendant may be charged with not just defamation but also with violating cybercrime laws (more serious) i) Not sure why this clickbait populist article is given so much attention. It’s badly researched, badly written. Classic “blogger - wannabe journalist” piece. A new low for Yahoo News.

msh 6y ago
No matter if there is more, how is being arrested by the police and risking 2 years in prison appropriate for libel in a review? I think it is good warning people not to be tourists in countries with draconian laws.
- unnameduser1 6y ago
  Nobody forced the guy to come and work in Thailand. He isn’t a tourist though. If he works here he should know about the laws. Ignorance is not protection against the laws. We see the same with many foreign tourists who come and assume they can ride motorcycles without valid driving license and experience. Lots of them injured and asking for money in gofundme pages to pay hospital bills since insurance won’t cover illegal behavior. If I were to take your way of thinking then USA should be also on travel warning list. A (Canadian) foreigner living there was killed when she called police to report someone breaking into her house. However she was killed by police. I think that’s a bit more drastic than being arrested for (allegedly) not showing up in person to the police station as per report. The law is sometimes abused by people but it’s not draconian. Defendants are usually called and asked to appear at police station to make their own statement. Very civilized way of handling. Then you have most likely two times there to negotiate with the person who filed report. If nothing comes out of it, and only then, criminal charges are filed and investigated. A judge has to write an arrest warrant and does it if the defendant didn’t answer to calls by police to appear. Then and only then they can arrest him. He would have been brought to the station, went to jail for not following proceeding and he got out on bail. So far this seems like a very appropriate handling. Also I’m sure that before the case starts the judge usually ask both parties if this can be negotiated first. They have more critical cases than to deal with stupid posts on social media. If no agreement can be reached then there is a trial and it’s not guaranteed that defendant would get 2y in prison unless is unreasonable. He has a lot of influence there. His reaction will determine the proceedings and he will get a fair trial. You’re inventing things and twisting reality. People are less likely to get in trouble with the law in Thailand than to get shot by police in the US. So please let me know how reasonable it is for foreigners in USA to get killed by police when calling 911 and reporting a break in.

hechang1997 6y ago

https://en.tripadvisor.com.hk/Hotel_Review-g580110-d594766-Reviews-Sea_View_Resort_Spa_Koh_Chang-Ko_Chang_Trat_Province.html https://en.tripadvisor.com.hk/Hotel_Review-g580110-d594766-R... Here's the resort in question.

justinclift 6y ago
Going there, it has: Message from Tripadvisor: Due to a recent event that has attracted media attention and has caused an influx of review submissions that do not describe a first-hand experience, we have temporarily suspended publishing new reviews for this listing. If you’ve had a firsthand experience at this property, please check back soon - we’re looking forward to receiving your review! So not only are TripAdvisor not warning people of the danger of going to this place, they also blocking anyone else who does. That doesn't seem helpful at all.