6 ms·
I think it's likely that social animals are almost all self aware. How can an individual animal manage social relations within its pack without a knowledge of s
by bigpumpkin 6y ago
I think it's likely that social animals are almost all self aware. How can an individual animal manage social relations within its pack without a knowledge of self and of other selves?
- exo-pla-net 6y agoI disagree. Ants are highly social, but few would ascribe them self awareness. They pursue social objectives using instinct. But pack animals? Maybe. We don't have an answer to how our own self awareness works, so we're largely working in the dark.
- root_axis 6y agoWe're definitely working in the dark, but i don't see any compelling reason to suggest that ants aren't self-aware; why wouldn't they be? What about their behavior makes you feel like they aren't?
- eternalban 6y agoExtreme self-abnegation.
- klyrs 6y agoWhat are your thoughts on kamikaze pilots in this regard?
- eternalban 6y agoHumans are capable of self sacrifice for a cause. Duty, honor, love of one's homeland, spiritual convictions, etc. These are psychological motives and forces and their factual impact on the subject person is observable. I just recently saw Eien no Zero (aka The Eternal Zero). If that movie reflects the actual events, then the pilots were subject to serious psychological stress coming to terms with their duty to Japan. If we can ever measure 'psychological stress' in ants, then we can observe if they experience a shift from a normal psychological state to a stressful one before "deciding" to sacrifice themselves on whatever heroic ant task awaits them.
- root_axis 6y agoAre monks, philosophers, and soldiers not self-aware?
- eternalban 6y agoA society composed entirely of selfless monks? (Philosophers are definitely not self-abnegating. They are on a career track. Soldier do exhibit self-sacrifice, but quite a lot are conscripted against their will, and require a bit of re-education in boot-camp.)
- exo-pla-net 6y agoThe compelling reason for me is the mirror test, and what you can infer from it. The tiniest bit of self-awareness lets you pass the mirror test, as toddlers demonstrate. Apes pass, elephants pass, and magpies pass. Monkeys fail. What's different about monkeys? They have smaller, simpler brains. If a monkey by all appearances has no concept of self, an ant with 0.008% as many neurons assuredly doesn't.
- eivarv 6y agoWhy does it matter if few (or many, for that matter) ascribe them self awareness? Popularity is no measure of truth. And who's to say what actions are "free will" (whatever that means) over instincts?
- bawana 6y agowait a minute, instinct? So hard wired behaviors are different than acquired behaviors when it comes to self awareness? Come to think of it, no one has defined self awareness so how can we begin to say who has it and who does not? Is a three year old self aware? A three year old clearly responds to other people but many would say he/she sees the world as part of him/herself.