5 ms·
Off-topic, but it strikes me as interesting how everyone always considers themselves "the masses", calling themselves "us plebes" on a forum where a six-figure
by StavrosK 6y ago
Off-topic, but it strikes me as interesting how everyone always considers themselves "the masses", calling themselves "us plebes" on a forum where a six-figure salary is the norm.
- sarakayakomzin 6y agoit strikes me as interesting that you're apparently not allowed to argue in favor of making things better for everyone at a relative proportional scale given the top .01%.
- sneak 6y agoLow six figure salaries are barely middle class in many cities the US. The kinds of rich people being discussed in this thread are still a very small percentage of six-figure+ earners. I would venture to say (no pun intended) that most HN readers are not accredited investors.
- StavrosK 6y agoSure, but "middle class" doesn't really mean much, the median income in the US is $61k.
- perl4ever 6y agoI believe the median salary in Loudoun County, VA, which is the richest county in the US or close, is around $70K. The lower boundary of "middle class" must be lower, then. So I continue to think that the six-figure norm people talk about is within a "reality distortion field".
- sthnblllII 6y agoMedian incomes in metro areas all over the US often exceed 120k, meaning one half of people earn more than that.
- heavyset_go 6y agoIf you need to work in order to keep a roof over your head, food on your plate and to take your kid to a doctor, then you are working class. It doesn't matter how much money you make, because it is never enough to leave the working class and live off of your assets indefinitely.
- saagarjha 6y agoI suspect this forum has an (relatively) high ratio of people who can and do manage to do exactly that.
- kyuudou 6y agoWhile I agree with your reasoning, I think the generally accepted understanding of "working class" is of skilled and unskilled laborers that are distinct from the "professional class" that tend to work in offices and don't work so much with their hands. A plumber running a small business employing other plumbers with a massive cash assets could be a lot farther from being homeless than a senior lawyer with multiple houses and expensive cars but the plumber will always be perceived as "working class" in contrast to the lawyer's "professional class".
- heavyset_go 6y agoSocial class defined by economic relations has material consequences that exist between countries and cultures, and the colloquial usage you're referring to[1] is dependent on where you are and who you ask. To sociologists, economists, and academia, those who rely on a salary or wage to live are considered working class compared to those who don't. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_class#Definitions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_class#Definitions
- refurb 6y agoNo. If that were the case, then some banker in NYC, making $1M a year, but no savings, living in a $2M condo with a $10,000 monthly mortgage and 3 kids in private school would be "working class". That's a perversion of the definition.
- eat_veggies 6y agoThis visualization is pretty eye opening in illustrating the difference between a cushy six-figure job and the ultra-wealthy that we're talking about as the complement of "us plebs" https://mkorostoff.github.io/1-pixel-wealth/ https://mkorostoff.github.io/1-pixel-wealth/
- missedthecue 6y agoThere are only 500-600 billionaires in the US and I'd wager that none or very very few of them cheat on their taxes, given that doing so would have provide essentially no noticable improvement on their spending ability, but have a very high cost if caught. I don't think your handsome graphic there is offering much insight into the topic at hand. The richer someone is, the less likely they are to cheat on their taxes.
- JackFr 6y agoYes and no. EITC not withstanding you need to have income to hide it. According to Brookings, the bottom 50% pay 14% of the taxes but are responsible for only 12% of evasion. The better distinction is the source of income. Farms, landlords and sole proprietorships are the leaders in misreporting income. W-2 salary reporters account for <1% of evasion. Between those two groups are misreported tips (typically lower end) and capital gains (typically higher end)
- JackFr 6y agoPlease stop comparing wealth and income.
- content_sesh 6y agoYour salary is not what makes you working class or bourgeoisie. The distinction is, broadly, whether you must sell your labor to survive.
- refurb 6y agoSo a FAANG employee pulling in $600k a year is "working class"? Hell no. If you're in the top 1% of income (~$400k per year) you are wealthy.
- jandrewrogers 6y agoWhile they definitely are not “blue collar”, income is not wealth. It is a mistake to conflate income and wealth, the implications are very different. One can have a high income today and be destitute tomorrow absent wealth. Wealthy people are a subset of those with high incomes.
- refurb 6y agoYour definition doesn't really align with how "wealthy" is used. If you're making $400k per year, how long before you start to accumulate substantial wealth? Pretty quickly I'd say. Sure it might not be millions, but if you sock away $200k at age 25 after 3 years, you have more wealth than 99% of people your age. "Wealthy" is not limited to wealth alone. If you're making $2M a year and have no savings, you're still "wealthy". And people with large amount of wealth (your definition) can still become destitute. There are plenty of examples.
- Hydraulix989 6y agoStarter homes in San Francisco start at $1M. That $400k post tax is mostly going into housing.
- refurb 6y agoYeah, but owning a single family home in one of the most desirable cities in the US makes you rich. That’s something 90% of America couldn’t dream of doing.
- tymofiy 6y agoYes, the middle class has the luxury to not be bothered with immediate survival. A food on their plate and a roof over their heads. A time to think. Some might say that with that luxury comes the responsibility to improve the situation.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]