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Oh it's worse now. No one tests anything against Debian any more and assumes that Ubuntu is the one true Linux. That makes things like Kubernetes have some extr

by qz2 6y ago

Oh it's worse now. No one tests anything against Debian any more and assumes that Ubuntu is the one true Linux. That makes things like Kubernetes have some extra annoying hoops to jump through. The whole Linux ecosystem is like trying to work with mixed windows 95 and NT environments was in 1998 now as far as portability goes. Mostly it works, but sometimes it really screws you hard.

DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
> No one tests anything against Debian any more and assumes this is absolutely not true. All packages that are available in Debian have a release process, and there is a test bed. there is also the dh_auto_test part of debhelper which becomes increasingly relevant for accepting packages into the debian release process. So if anything the opposite of your claim is true.
- qz2 6y ago
  Yes I’m talking about third party packages, software and repositories. The contents of the default Debian repositories are excellent, but usually quite old.
  - DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
    what are 3rd party packages? maybe code from github that isn't packaged? I have been running Debian sid for many years for various scenarios and not once had an issue with stability or that I got bitten by a bug. In production I want stable at all costs. For anything in between building from source is always an OK compromise. The premise that Debian sid has poor quality packages is a blanket statement that is wrong.
    - jcelerier 6y ago
      > maybe code from github that isn't packaged? which is, you know, where most of the useful stuff is in 2020
      - qz2 6y ago
        Exactly my point.
      - DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
        most of the useful stuff? can you point me to some data that shows which "useful stuff" is lacking in sid? what is the actual issue? inability to compile things from source or not knowing that you can install to /usr/local/bin or $HOME/bin etc? of course everything is either on gihub or gitlab in 2020. the argument that the majority of software that is useful isn't actually available as deb package is false. useful to who? based on what arguments?
        qz2 6y ago
        Kubernetes 1.19 here... To clarify your edit, I am mostly concerned that I want to pull in another deb repo or something so when I do an apt update I get a full set of updates, not the distribution packages and a manual compile job to argue with.
  - eth0up 6y ago
    I sure wish they'd put wicd back in the repos.
kilburn 6y ago
My pragmatic solution: - Run debian stable to get a solid base system - When you want the latest version of some software and need it "on the host" for some reason: use the official repositories / auto-updating stuff (e.g.: docker, firefox, vscode, virtualbox). - Everything you can run on docker ... just do it. Even cli utilities are usually fine (for instance I run latex from within docker, through an alias that mounts the current folder as a volume). - When you cannot run something on docker, consider lxc. - As a last resort, turn to kvm machines. Hint: vscode-remote works beautifully to work inside the VM when you must resort to this. I know it is not free, but I said pragmatic ;)
- qz2 6y ago
  That's roughly where I have landed as well. Also including VScode and remote-ssh :)
- kelnos 6y ago
  For desktop use, I run Debian stable for the first six months or so after release, and then switch to testing. That ends up being enough time for things to settle down, and, remarkably, I have near-zero issues with testing. One thing that is a pain is that testing isn't covered by the Debian Security Team, and sometimes gets fixes a week or so after stable does, so you do need to be more proactive about security issues.

by qz2 6y ago

DyslexicAtheist 6y ago

> No one tests anything against Debian any more and assumes this is absolutely not true. All packages that are available in Debian have a release process, and there is a test bed. there is also the dh_auto_test part of debhelper which becomes increasingly relevant for accepting packages into the debian release process. So if anything the opposite of your claim is true.

qz2 6y ago
Yes I’m talking about third party packages, software and repositories. The contents of the default Debian repositories are excellent, but usually quite old.
- DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
  what are 3rd party packages? maybe code from github that isn't packaged? I have been running Debian sid for many years for various scenarios and not once had an issue with stability or that I got bitten by a bug. In production I want stable at all costs. For anything in between building from source is always an OK compromise. The premise that Debian sid has poor quality packages is a blanket statement that is wrong.
  - jcelerier 6y ago
    > maybe code from github that isn't packaged? which is, you know, where most of the useful stuff is in 2020
    - qz2 6y ago
      Exactly my point.
    - DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
      most of the useful stuff? can you point me to some data that shows which "useful stuff" is lacking in sid? what is the actual issue? inability to compile things from source or not knowing that you can install to /usr/local/bin or $HOME/bin etc? of course everything is either on gihub or gitlab in 2020. the argument that the majority of software that is useful isn't actually available as deb package is false. useful to who? based on what arguments?
      - qz2 6y ago
        Kubernetes 1.19 here... To clarify your edit, I am mostly concerned that I want to pull in another deb repo or something so when I do an apt update I get a full set of updates, not the distribution packages and a manual compile job to argue with.
- eth0up 6y ago
  I sure wish they'd put wicd back in the repos.

kilburn 6y ago

My pragmatic solution: - Run debian stable to get a solid base system - When you want the latest version of some software and need it "on the host" for some reason: use the official repositories / auto-updating stuff (e.g.: docker, firefox, vscode, virtualbox). - Everything you can run on docker ... just do it. Even cli utilities are usually fine (for instance I run latex from within docker, through an alias that mounts the current folder as a volume). - When you cannot run something on docker, consider lxc. - As a last resort, turn to kvm machines. Hint: vscode-remote works beautifully to work inside the VM when you must resort to this. I know it is not free, but I said pragmatic ;)

qz2 6y ago
That's roughly where I have landed as well. Also including VScode and remote-ssh :)
kelnos 6y ago
For desktop use, I run Debian stable for the first six months or so after release, and then switch to testing. That ends up being enough time for things to settle down, and, remarkably, I have near-zero issues with testing. One thing that is a pain is that testing isn't covered by the Debian Security Team, and sometimes gets fixes a week or so after stable does, so you do need to be more proactive about security issues.