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> The worst thing Microsoft can do is bring more people to Linux. They're doing exactly the opposite. Just wait for the day some new killer Linux apps encourag

> The worst thing Microsoft can do is bring more people to Linux. They're doing exactly the opposite. Just wait for the day some new killer Linux apps encourages, or even requires, WSL rather than native Linux to run properly, or to run at all. Imagine a window-manager/desktop-environment using the same exact windows primitives and behaviour but integrated into the WSL Linux OS. That thing would be the killer app a lot of Linux users would dream of, it would for obvious reasons run only under WSL, and would take away a huge number of non-hardcore Linux users. "Why learn a new user interface when you can keep the same you're used to, and more importantly write Linux software that will make full use of it?". I desperately want to be proved wrong, but I'm really pessimistic about WSL: it is to Linux exactly what WINE is to Windows, and will kill Linux pretty much everywhere except servers and embedded systems, just as WINE has killed Windows on many desktops where the real thing wasn't necessary.

mimixco 6y ago
Microsoft has always been about making devs happy so they will sell software to users. If devs are happy with Linux, WSL will make it easier for them to sell those apps to Windows users. The community of people who develop software is small compared to the audience that runs software, and those people are mostly on Windows. MS is doing this to keep devs happy and keep them shipping apps for Windows, even if the devs live entirely in Linux land.
- wvenable 6y ago
  Microsoft wants to sell Cloud to developers. More than 50% of servers on Azure are Linux. It's that simple. Obviously developing for Linux in WSL does nothing to keep developers shipping apps for Windows.
wvenable 6y ago
> Just wait for the day some new killer Linux apps encourages, or even requires, WSL rather than native Linux to run properly, or to run at all. Why that would exist? If you wanted an app that could only run in Windows, you could write it for Windows. Nothing has changed here. The only reason to use WSL is because you want to use Linux software or you have a Linux server environment and you want to use Windows as your Workstation environment for development. > just as WINE has killed Windows on many desktops where the real thing wasn't necessary. Except, of course, this is running an actual Linux kernel. So really it's just putting Linux in Windows and running them side-by-side. If anything, it makes moving to Linux easier if somehow this becomes even more popular. The thing is, your attitude is stuck in the 90's and Microsoft's isn't. They used to write software for many different platforms and they're starting to do that again. Microsoft definitely cares less now if you run their software on Android, iOS, Windows, or even Linux. They're going to make money off of you either way.
- thesuperbigfrog 6y ago
  >> The thing is, your attitude is stuck in the 90's and Microsoft's isn't. They used to write software for many different platforms and they're starting to do that again. Microsoft definitely cares less now if you run their software on Android, iOS, Windows, or even Linux. They're going to make money off of you either way. I think it's more of a market position change rather than an attitude change. Microsoft had significantly more market share in the 90's and used that market share to get their way no matter what. Desktop computing was the dominant way most people used computers and Microsoft was king. The rise of cloud computing and mobile caused Microsoft's dominant position to slip. They lost the cloud to Linux. They lost mobile to Apple and Android. They still have majority on desktop computing, but that too is under assault from Chromebooks in education and non-Windows tablets for "consumption-heavy" and casual computing. >> They used to write software for many different platforms and they're starting to do that again. Microsoft definitely cares less now if you run their software on Android, iOS, Windows, or even Linux. They have to. If they don't embrace other platforms they would dwindle. If Microsoft software was only available for Windows, many consumers would rarely use their products. Office 365 exists so Microsoft Office can live on as a web application and there-by be available for practically all devices. >> They're going to make money off of you either way. Exactly. They have adapted quite well and have demonstrated remarkable resilience and versatility. However I believe that they were compelled to change due to a loss of dominance rather than a change of attitude.
  - wvenable 6y ago
    > I think it's more of a market position change rather than an attitude change. I think the market position changed long before their attitude did. Microsoft's protective attitude towards Windows ultimately cost them mobile. > The rise of cloud computing and mobile caused Microsoft's dominant position to slip. They lost the cloud to Linux. They lost mobile to Apple and Android. They didn't lose the cloud to Linux -- that makes no sense. Cloud competitors are Google and Amazon. Microsoft's cloud market share is growing more than 50% every year. While it still much less than Amazon, Microsoft is in a solid position. Linux accounts for more than half the servers on Azure and I'm sure Microsoft is perfectly ok with that. > They have to. If they don't embrace other platforms they would dwindle. If Microsoft software was only available for Windows, many consumers would rarely use their products. A second ago, you were arguing that Microsoft is going to make Linux obsolete and you now seem to be arguing the opposite. > However I believe that they were compelled to change due to a loss of dominance rather than a change of attitude. I'm not sure how that is relevant or how either one of us could know the minds of the top executives at Microsoft. But either way, it means that Windows is definitely not Microsoft's primary focus as it was throughout the 90's and 2000's. WSL is part of that strategy and not some obsolete EEE scenario.

mimixco 6y ago

Microsoft has always been about making devs happy so they will sell software to users. If devs are happy with Linux, WSL will make it easier for them to sell those apps to Windows users. The community of people who develop software is small compared to the audience that runs software, and those people are mostly on Windows. MS is doing this to keep devs happy and keep them shipping apps for Windows, even if the devs live entirely in Linux land.

wvenable 6y ago
Microsoft wants to sell Cloud to developers. More than 50% of servers on Azure are Linux. It's that simple. Obviously developing for Linux in WSL does nothing to keep developers shipping apps for Windows.

wvenable 6y ago

> Just wait for the day some new killer Linux apps encourages, or even requires, WSL rather than native Linux to run properly, or to run at all. Why that would exist? If you wanted an app that could only run in Windows, you could write it for Windows. Nothing has changed here. The only reason to use WSL is because you want to use Linux software or you have a Linux server environment and you want to use Windows as your Workstation environment for development. > just as WINE has killed Windows on many desktops where the real thing wasn't necessary. Except, of course, this is running an actual Linux kernel. So really it's just putting Linux in Windows and running them side-by-side. If anything, it makes moving to Linux easier if somehow this becomes even more popular. The thing is, your attitude is stuck in the 90's and Microsoft's isn't. They used to write software for many different platforms and they're starting to do that again. Microsoft definitely cares less now if you run their software on Android, iOS, Windows, or even Linux. They're going to make money off of you either way.

thesuperbigfrog 6y ago
>> The thing is, your attitude is stuck in the 90's and Microsoft's isn't. They used to write software for many different platforms and they're starting to do that again. Microsoft definitely cares less now if you run their software on Android, iOS, Windows, or even Linux. They're going to make money off of you either way. I think it's more of a market position change rather than an attitude change. Microsoft had significantly more market share in the 90's and used that market share to get their way no matter what. Desktop computing was the dominant way most people used computers and Microsoft was king. The rise of cloud computing and mobile caused Microsoft's dominant position to slip. They lost the cloud to Linux. They lost mobile to Apple and Android. They still have majority on desktop computing, but that too is under assault from Chromebooks in education and non-Windows tablets for "consumption-heavy" and casual computing. >> They used to write software for many different platforms and they're starting to do that again. Microsoft definitely cares less now if you run their software on Android, iOS, Windows, or even Linux. They have to. If they don't embrace other platforms they would dwindle. If Microsoft software was only available for Windows, many consumers would rarely use their products. Office 365 exists so Microsoft Office can live on as a web application and there-by be available for practically all devices. >> They're going to make money off of you either way. Exactly. They have adapted quite well and have demonstrated remarkable resilience and versatility. However I believe that they were compelled to change due to a loss of dominance rather than a change of attitude.
- wvenable 6y ago
  > I think it's more of a market position change rather than an attitude change. I think the market position changed long before their attitude did. Microsoft's protective attitude towards Windows ultimately cost them mobile. > The rise of cloud computing and mobile caused Microsoft's dominant position to slip. They lost the cloud to Linux. They lost mobile to Apple and Android. They didn't lose the cloud to Linux -- that makes no sense. Cloud competitors are Google and Amazon. Microsoft's cloud market share is growing more than 50% every year. While it still much less than Amazon, Microsoft is in a solid position. Linux accounts for more than half the servers on Azure and I'm sure Microsoft is perfectly ok with that. > They have to. If they don't embrace other platforms they would dwindle. If Microsoft software was only available for Windows, many consumers would rarely use their products. A second ago, you were arguing that Microsoft is going to make Linux obsolete and you now seem to be arguing the opposite. > However I believe that they were compelled to change due to a loss of dominance rather than a change of attitude. I'm not sure how that is relevant or how either one of us could know the minds of the top executives at Microsoft. But either way, it means that Windows is definitely not Microsoft's primary focus as it was throughout the 90's and 2000's. WSL is part of that strategy and not some obsolete EEE scenario.